Closer Ratings

[PAULMINICUCCI]

I have a question about closer ratings. Some pretty good closers like Nathan and Hoffman (and others) have the R1/C6 rating which has me confused. If a pitcher has a C6 I thought it meant he was good to get 6 outs in a closer role. However the R1 would indicate that he can only get 3 outs as a reliever before tiring, which seems to contradict the C6. What am I missing?

[bleacher_creature]

R1 applies if he comes in during a non-closer situation I believe. Which CAN CHANGE to a closer situation, at which point the C6 takes over, taking into account walks and hits already allowed.

This is from memory. I don't have the rules in front of me, so anyone can please feel free to correct me.

[PAULMINICUCCI]

good point. i see that, but it still does not make sense to me, how is the same picther only good for three outs in a regular non-save situation (the R1 rating) and then when he is closing he is worth six outs (the C6 rating)? Seems like a contradiction.

[bleacher_creature]

[quote:d3e5e39797="Sacramento Yankees"]good point. i see that, but it still does not make sense to me, how is the same picther only good for three outs in a regular non-save situation (the R1 rating) and then when he is closing he is worth six outs (the C6 rating)? Seems like a contradiction.[/quote:d3e5e39797]

In "real Life", some guys are effective relievers, but can't seem to close out games. Here is the entire rule:


[b:d3e5e39797]Closer Situation
A "closer situation” occurs whenever the defensive team has the lead and the tying run is at-bat or on-base from the 9th inning on. When this situation occurs then observe the following rule changes:
Reliever being brought into the game
When bringing a relief pitcher into the game in a closer situation ignore his Relief Endurance rating. Instead use his Closer Endurance rating to determine the number of outs he can record before he loses his effectiveness.

Once this number of outs have been recorded, the pitcher will lose his effectiveness as soon as he allows a hit or a walk. If a pitcher is rated 0, then he loses his effectiveness as soon as he allows a hit or a walk. When a pitcher loses his effectiveness, he has reached his POW.

If the pitcher being brought into the game in a closer situation has a Closer Endurance rating of "N", then he enters the game with the loss effectiveness penalty already in affect (he has reached his POW). For pitchers rated as a “N”, this penalty is always in effect starting with the first batter they face in a closer situation.
Reliever currently in the game
If the pitcher in the game has a Closer Endurance rating of "N", then he immediately loses his effectiveness (he reaches his POW.)

If the pitcher in the game has a Closer Endurance rating of 0 to 6, you should subtract the number of outs that he has already recorded in this game from his closer rating. This number becomes his Closer Endurance for this game. If the computed number is less than 0, then accept 0 as his Closer Endurance for this game.

Follow the rules outlined above (under "Reliever being brought into the game") using this computed Closer Endurance instead of his actual rating.
Important notes about the Closer Rule
· Once the closer situation rules have been implemented for a particular reliever they over-ride the normal relief endurance rules and cannot be canceled. DO NOT REVERT TO THE NORMAI, RELIEF ENDURANCE RULES FOR THIS PITCHER EVEN IF THE SCORE CHANGES AND YOU ARE NO LONGER IN A CLOSER SITUATION!
· Whenever you bring in a new reliever you are starting a clean slate. Use the current situation to determine if you should start with the normal relief endurance rules or the closer endurance rules.
· These rules do not affect the starting pitcher's POW in any way! This must be kept in mind when a pitcher rated to start and relieve is used as a starter. If he's used as a starter then these have no effect, but when used as a reliever you will follow these rules.
· Relievers effective inning are capped. The relievers maximum innings without reaching his POW is equal to his relief endurance plus 2. After that point, the pitcher may remain in the game but has reached his POW (all dots become SI**.)[/b:d3e5e39797]

[PAULMINICUCCI]

Thank you creature, I appreciate the full rule. I am actually addressing the inverse or reverse of what the rules states. let me try one more time, when Nathan comes into a game in a [b:ba897738d7]non-close situation [/b:ba897738d7]he has an R1 rating so he is susceptible to tiredness after just [b:ba897738d7]three batters[/b:ba897738d7], yet when he comes in to a save situation he has a C6 so he can go[b:ba897738d7] six batters [/b:ba897738d7]without being susceptible to tiredness. The question is why does Nathan perform less well in an ordinary situation, not why does he do better as a closer. It would appear that he really likes the stress of closing. No kidding he is a picther I guess one would want to check maximize closer on manager startegy so he is only chosen by HAL for closes, otherwise he can get wacked around. I hope that makes sense. I am trying to figure out who is worth what in the bullpen. It may be that if I use Nathan he can be an effective closer but I had better not use him in a noin-close situation whereas some closers can picth in a non-close situation , that is they have a R2 or R3 along with a C5 or 6 rating.

[maligned]

The regular pitcher endurance rule functions differently than the closer rule. That's where you're confused. With any pitcher, the endurance rating reflects the first inning of work in which he is susceptible to losing effectiveness. This loss of effectiveness occurs when he allows any combination of 3 walks or hits in an inning. In other words, Nathan, like any other pitcher, is effective until eternity if he doesn't give up a combo of 3 walks or hits in an inning. For relievers, this can get a little difficult to track, because their number of innings pitched are based on outs recorded.
Now, with all of this said, no one really knows how HAL computes endurance. It's clearly different than in regular Strat, because ineffective starters with ratings of 6 or 7 will often get removed before their endurance inning without the criteria having been met. There are additional endurance rules that say any pitcher loses his effectiveness if he allows 5 runs in an inning or 9 runs in a 3-inning stretch, but I see starters yanked before reaching this. The TSN rules also mention that endurance for the on-line game is not calculated in the same way as the Strat board game. Basically, we're all with you in not knowing for sure what goes through HAL's head.

[CHARLESBELL]

SY, the R1/C6 does not mean that Nathan is a worse pitcher when not in a closing situation. When NOT in a closing situation the special rules for that situation don't apply. So he is as good as his card says in non-closing situations.

When in a closing situation, a non-C rated pitcher becomes a worse pitcher because he immediately reaches his point of weakness (POW). A closer rated pitcher can maintain his existing effectiveness as long as he doesn't exceed in number of outs his closer rating. Then he too becomes less effective as well.

As an R1 Nathan is "susceptible" to POW, but has a chance to pitch many more innings that one before actually reaching POW. As a C6, nathan reaaches POW as soon as he records 6 outs in a closing situation, nothing "susceptible" about it.

Why? I think you hit on it already. Closing is considered a pressure situation and the c rating says how long a pitcher can maintain his effectiveness in those situations.

[PAULMINICUCCI]

Thanks so much for the very complete explanation. I think I have it now.