When to bring the infield in?

[ANDYCOCHRANE]

a post on the strategy thread asks about when to put the infield in. Lucky says 2nd Inning. I asked a similar question about this a while back and the answer came back to wait until 4th or 5th. I have put mine on 5th recently and just left it. What do you guys do??

[Jeepdriver]

In a fairly neutral park, like Turner, Miller, etc. I set it on the 3rd inning. In a high singles park like Fenway, PNC, etc. I set it on the 4th inning. In a low singles park like Safeco I put it on the 2nd.

Not saying that's the best, but it's what I do. Of course for people that don't micromanage I would say anywhere 2-4 is ok, but I have no magical reason for saying that. :)

[cummings2]

I usually go 4th inning. I like to give my starter one around the order without any + working against him.

However I thought Lucky's logic while setting it in the 2nd was/is very sound and hard to argue against.

[bkoron]

It's not hard to argue against, and I hope Marc will forgive me if I do, because I'm kind of ignorant about SOM and am probably about to proceed off the end of a limb here.

But.

Does bringing the infield in raise the hitter's batting average in SOM?

If it does, then it's not such a hot play until late in the game. You may be cutting off some runs at home, but are you letting in more than you cut off because you're raising the hitter's batting average?

BTW, this is not such a big raise as you might think, because a lot of it is the effect of the SF rule (doesn't count as an AB):

http://danagonistes.blogspot.com/2005/12/playing-infield-in.html

But there is an effect, about 35 points in BAvg if a SF fly is not counted as an AB.

In low run environments, it makes some more sense. But in Coors? I'm playing my IF back as late in the game as possible.

8) ~BK

[Mean Dean]

You can't go by the real-life data, because SOM handles it in its own game-specific way. Infield in does raise the hitter's average in SOM; specifically, on a gb(X) to a fielder positioned in, 20% of the groundball outs on the chart become SINGLE**.

But, look at all the [url=http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/btf/pages/basesim/somrules.htm]advantages infield in has[/url] (the table at the end). With bases loaded or 1st and 3rd, it saves a run (at the expense of a DP.) With men on 2nd and 3rd or just 3rd, it will save the run on a gbA to 2B or SS, and on a gbB or gbC to 2B or SS, you will get the chance to throw for the runner instead of him just scoring.

So to me, there are [i:1afa2cab5e]far[/i:1afa2cab5e] more things that can go right with IF in than can go wrong. (You can also throw in the factor that a man on 3rd with fewer than 2 outs is likely to score no matter what you do, so it's not like the worst-case scenario of a SINGLE** is some tremendous disaster.) My experience is to just play the infield in every time, so I set it to 1st inning. I'm sure you could work it out mathematically, and maybe you'd come up with a different answer, but based on my board game experience and the way the game mechanics work, I wouldn't think so.

[bkoron]

A-ha!

Thanks, Dean. I didn't know that stuff about SOM, because I try to approach every sim like it is real, and the realer it is, the more I like it.

So this is another example of how SOM can be kinda silly. A real major league team is quite unlikely to pull its infield in in the first inning no matter where it's playing.

~BK 8)

[cummings2]

In a slightly unrelated manner:

I remember a few years back when terry collins was on his final year managing the then Anaheim Angels, he did pull the IF in very early in a game against Oakland (why I remeber this stuff and not my girlfriend's birthday is still a mystery).

Anyhoo, the players were particularily upset (Jim Edmonds was still an Angel then) because they felt the manager was in fact showing how little trust he had in his offense. If memory serves me well, the argument tilted towards Collins since the offensive numbers were horrendous that year aaaand I believe the strategy worked.

So, the point to all of this: If in real life the strategy is used to save runs from scoring, then in a simulation environment the strategy should accomplish the same goal. It is, from my POV, quite clear that the IF in will prevent run from scoring, like ALL strategies it merely increases certain odds and reduces others, however, in a game like strat where, if anyting, the best hitters and pitchers are condensed in 12 talent-packed teams every match-up and Odds advantage that can be gained should be exploited.

Just a thought though.

[NFLed1]

In this day of high scoring games I don't want to do anything to increase my opponent's chances of getting on base -- especially with less than 2 outs -- so I don't like infield in until the last few innings of a close game. Holding a runner on 3rd on a specific type of ground ball is to me not nearly as important as keeping the batter's on base as low as possible. If I had a great pitching poor hitting team then I'd consider infield in more often but that'd be an extreme case.