BernieH I feel ripped off

[the splinter]

Ask Mike Hampton if pitchers get injured

[maligned]

LM-
The point is that the only time your ENTIRE staff can get hurt happens when facing the DH. This is a total of 650-675 plate appearances for a DH divided among your ENTIRE staff.
On the flipside, EACH of your everyday hitters will accumulate 650-675 plate appearances in a season (usually more than 6000 total plate appearances in a season).
It's true that your DH and the pitcher he is facing have the same chance of getting an injury in each single DH plate appearance. However, this single event happens only 1 out of every 9 batters a pitcher faces.
To put it one more way: a decent pitcher that pitches 200 innings in a season will face a little under 900 batters the entire season...meaning he only faces the DH less than 100 times...meaning he will only get an injury roll less than 0.5 times the ENTIRE season.
Even a hitter with a "1" injury rating will face 3 injury rolls per season (27 total for a team of all "1" ratings). Again, your ENTIRE pitching staff will only face about 3 injury rolls in a season. This is obviously far, far less frequent.
Injuries to pitchers seem to happen far less because they DO happen far less.
(By the way, I was playing this game like 15 years before I realized this fact...you have to disengage your mind for a moment and re-think it.. :D )

[LMBombers]

You have to decide if we are talking about one player, all hitters or all pitchers. Your DH will bat maybe 4 times in a game. Each of his ABs he has the same chance to become injured as the pitcher. A pitcher (any pitcher), when facing the DH has that same chance of becoming injured (assuming the DH's injury rating is on a 2 or 12). This means that the DH would have 4 chances of becoming injured and your pitcher would have 4 chances of becoming injured during that game. It might not be the exact same pitcher as your SP will not all throw complete games but it doesn't matter.

Lets say your SP pitches 6 innings which is 2/3 of a 9 inning game. Then on average your SP would get 2/3 of injury chances (DH ABs) during a season. Your total pitching staff would still have the same injury chance as the DH but your individual pitcher's injury chance would be split up base on how long they were in the game (how many times they face the DH).

If we are talking about pitchers as a whole then they would have the exact same injury chance as the opposing DH. Each individual pitcher would have less since they are not in the game all 9 innings generally.

If the pitcher had an injury chance for every batter they faced they would constantly become injured. Picking one player at random (the DH) from the hitters he will face makes the pitchers have about the same injury chance as any hitter coming to the plate (unless the hitter is more injury prone).

[CHARLESBELL]

Another, simpler way to look at this is to think of the DH as batting in pitcher's spot.

In non-DH leagues every time the pitcher bats he risks injury.

In DH leagues, when the DH comes to bat in what would have been the pitchers spot, the pitcher on the mound (instead of at the plate) is the injury risk.

If the pitcher is allowed to bat, he risks injury. If the pitcher is allowed to face the DH, then he risks injury. It's the exact same odds.

[Egnaro24]

[quote:dadfc466c5="charliewb"]Another, simpler way to look at this is to think of the DH as batting in pitcher's spot.

In non-DH leagues every time the pitcher bats he risks injury.

In DH leagues, when the DH comes to bat in what would have been the pitchers spot, the pitcher on the mound (instead of at the plate) is the injury risk.

If the pitcher is allowed to bat, he risks injury. If the pitcher is allowed to face the DH, then he risks injury. It's the exact same odds.[/quote:dadfc466c5]

Interestingly this means that in non DH leagues, pitchers are exposed to fewer chances to get injured since some of those chances for injury are transfered to pinch hitters. ( I am assuming there is no similar rule for pinch hitters as with DH, allowing pitchers to get hurt on pinch hitter's card, dont know this for sure though)

[maligned]

LM,
My point is simply that there is virtually no injury risk with pitchers. Your entire pitching staff will collectively face approximately 3 injury rolls in an entire season--with * starting pitchers often being involved in as many as 1400 plate appearances. Meanwhile, EACH full-time hitter will get exposed to injury at least an average of 3 times in a season (for a 1 injury rating). It's true, your pitching staff collectively can get hurt as much as ONE of your players, but pitchers in general are virtually free from the injury bug.
The situation that started this whole thread is so rare it's not even worth considering when thinking of the value of individual pitchers...he was just EXTREMELY unlucky (I realize it's not any less frequent for one of your entire staff getting this than a 1-injury-rated DH getting a 10-gamer...it's just negligible in calculating the value of an individual pitcher from among that staff).
If you had all of your pitchers exposed to a 6-12 injury roll on every plate appearance, you would face a pitcher's injury roll approximately once every 5.5 games and average 3.5 games of injury for each of those occurrences (if you have no * pitchers). Your pitching staff injury report would look the same as a team's hitters' injury report on a team comprised exclusively of 1 injury ratings (most of the time, no one's on it). Your collective staff would miss a little over 100 games and a no-star starter with a 6 POW inning would face about 4 injury rolls per season, missing the said average of 3.5 games per roll. I'm not saying we should do it this way...again, I'm just illustrating how manageable even that injury risk would be--and it's 9 times more than what pitchers face now.

[kenhutchings]

One other point to take into consideration when calculating the odds is that the DH is likely a good hitter who will likely be intentionally walked a few times during the season, thus there would be no dice roll. Ditto if the DH either bunts or executes the hit and run, there would be no three dice roll, thus no injury could occur in those atbats.

With that in mind, the way to preserve your pitching staff is to instruct HAL to always intentionally walk the opposing DH.

Instead of three pitching injuries per season, it is probably closer to two. In my limited playing experience (I'm currently playing my eighth season), I can't recall that I have ever had more than two pitcher injuries during a season.

:)

[geekor]

[quote:a88550017f]One other point to take into consideration when calculating the odds is that the DH is likely a good hitter who will likely be intentionally walked a few times during the season,[/quote:a88550017f]

except that the Intentional walk is based a lot off of clutch, and most of the good hitters have bad clutch, so throw that argument out the window :P

[sleepdok]

well thanks for the interesting commentary. My team lost 3-2 in the semis after posting the best record in the league, Kazmir misses the whole playoffs due to injuriies (my opponent sucked vs lefties) and Morneau goes down for 3 games. Can someone tell me how Morneau goes down for 3 games with all his plate apperances?

[LMBombers]

Thats an easy one. Any player that did not play 162 games in real life runs the risk of a 3 game injury. Any player that had more than 600 ABs + walks is a 3 game max injury player. If he has less than 600 ABs + walks then he could get up to a 15 game injury.

The playoffs are really a crap shoot. The playoffs are NOT a crowning ceremony for the team with the best regular season record. You throw the regular season records right out the window and it is a free for all. All you can do is to build a quality team that can make the playoffs. Once there anything can happen and often does.