TSN-STRAT ethical dilemma.

[exwallman]

I am very curious...Just spent 20 minutes looking at his roster in the 24 team Avatar league...went through all the pitching options...nothing yet!

[ArrylT]

2. Switch starting pitchers an hour before the deadline.
Legal, but against the spirit of the game. Do not do.

Why is that against the spirit of the game?

Personally I have no problem if my opponent makes lineup or pitching changes any time up til the deadline allotted.

If you work all day and your company blocks TSN and you get home and see a change that needs to be made - go ahead and make it. Don't choose not to do it because you're worried its only 60min before the deadline. Thats why it is a deadline - because you're allowed to do what is necessary to prepare your team before said time.

I can only assume you're referring to the courtesy factor of allowing your opponent a chance to respond to whatever change you made. But I do not think owners should be required to adhere to their opponents schedule.

If I am a morning person and make my changes in the morning, and you're an evening person and do your changes in the evening, you shouldnt be required to leave your team as is just because I cannot make changes to my changes to counter your changes.

Both teams go in knowing what the deadline is, and what players their opponent will have available. Saying making changes with X amount of time left is against the spirit of the game is spurious at best, and where do you draw the line? 60 min is not good but 75min is?

No, any time before the deadline should be good. In the end what is and is not within the spirit of the game is a subjective and not an objective argument. When you don't do things to improve your team, within the rules of the game of course, because you're worried about how that will look, you are no longer playing to win.

And that can also be argued subjectively to be against the spirit of the game. You're supposed to do your best to win, not do your best to win except if offends the other owners sensibilities.

Otherwise most of the innovations in sport would never occur.

So no, I do not think making pitching changes 60min before deadline is against the spirit of the game.

[chasenally]

I don't have the game but I am sure that it has its advantages to the start of a new game. Running numerous seasons to see who works better in what Stadium. Is that a fair advantage over those that can't afford the game? As far as the glitch that was found I would have to know what kind it was to make an assessment as to if it was fair or not, but that's not going to happen. Did you find it looking for an advantage or did you come apon it accidentally doesn't really matter it was found. I'm with Arrylt with the pitching changes. The advantage to changing starters is with the cost of carrying 5 or 6 SP's over 4 SP* and one $.500 scrub giving you more to spend on other areas. That's a wash and your choice on strategy. Ultimately you will have to make the choice on your own. I do however have a problem if you let some of the community in on it and not all. If that is the case that would be wrong IMHO. The fact that you posted says much about your character which is good. Mike

[LMBombers]

Usually if something makes you even ask the question in your mind if something is ethical or not it is gennerally not.

[scorehouse]

nice work! you made your decision before even posting this silly poll. i think you should use it and see if the minions can figure it out. start a new league, the Sherlock Holmes league. :twisted:

[Chuckgnh1]

Representing newcomers here, and IMHO, it's encouraging to see a post such as this. It's your personal decision, but seeing that enhancements ongoing, ie. viewing ex-ballplayer's stats, here's a chance for a quick-fix via Bernie. All's fair in Heaven and HAL - it's up to the individual to decide how far to push the envelope. But I like the idea I'm competing on a (somewhat) level playing field, so to speak.

[durantjerry]

Do what's right. You don't need it and it will only cheapen your inevitable triumph.

[MARCPELLETIER]

Hey guys, fun to see the arguments flying around.
[quote:f98fbfef6e]
nice work! you made your decision before even posting this silly poll.[/quote:f98fbfef6e]

BTW, I'm not sure if polls are anonymous or not, but in any case, I answered "use it", but mainly because no one had voted yet this option, and I wanted to break the ice so other people vote this option. But basically, I was leaning towards not using it.


[quote:f98fbfef6e]
How did you happen to find it? Was it from scouring boxscores? If you found it due to lots of research and analysis on your part then you should keep it for yourself because you earned it. Everyone else could put in as much time and effort as you did and possibly find it as well.

If you found it due to some trickery or flim-flam scam then you should report it to Bernie and Co. so they can close that loophole. [/quote:f98fbfef6e]

Just to reassure people, I didn't find the glitch by some trickery or TSN inside stuff. It was mostly with scouring boxscores, and playing with some options.

But to make the trick work fully, it requires daily set-up and playing with the options on a daily basis. A drag, to say the least, but well within the limits of TSN. Problem is, once the games are played, the set-up forces the computer to use pitchers well beyond the rules imposed by Strat.

I'll say it straight up: I did use the loophole as I discovered it in a previous league for a few games. At first, it wasn't intentional, I changed the settings for very good reasons, but noticed the end results as the games were played, and then I understood I could use it intentionally. I used it intentionally perhaps two or three games, mostly out of curiosity. It always worked. Now the question I was entertaining was whether I should build an entire PITCHING ROTATION around that glitch.

[quote:f98fbfef6e]
I do however have a problem if you let some of the community in on it and not all. If that is the case that would be wrong IMHO.[/quote:f98fbfef6e]

Well, I haven't told anyone, and I haven't seen anyone do it, but it's fairly easy to do it if you have the right players. Actually, perhaps some people in the ATG do it, I don't play in the ATG.

And of course, the more details I give, the easier it will be for people to find out!!

I said previously that the glitch was relatively minor, but actually, it just crossed my mind that the edge could be quite substantial with the right set of players.

So anyway, I guess I won't use it in my new league, even though it will cost me!!!

[MARCPELLETIER]

Of other notes:

[quote:8ebc9a5381]
1. Being able to look at other teams stadiums before the draft>
A glitch in the system: Bad form to use this. [/quote:8ebc9a5381]

I heard about this, I thought TSN had fixed it.



[quote:8ebc9a5381].Just spent 20 minutes looking at his roster in the 24 team Avatar league...went through all the pitching options...nothing yet![/quote:8ebc9a5381]

Hey, exwallman, you REALLY could go through my pitching options?!? :shock:

Wow, that's a serious glitch, isn't?

[artie4121]

Jerry said . . .

[quote:da8395f0b1]Do what's right. You don't need it and it will only cheapen your inevitable triumph. [/quote:da8395f0b1]

which I agree with . . . especially for one of the Titans of this game.

To me, FWIW, the closer this game comes to REAL baseball the better. [i:da8395f0b1]Gaming the system[/i:da8395f0b1] is what you are talking about, and, to me, it cheapens it.

"Strategy" is one thing. Exploiting an electronic/programming glitch is icky.