Bernie-Collusion issue: Sincere thanks for dealing with it!

[ROBERTMAVIN]

thanks for responses. And yes, collusion is tough to prove..and bad trades dot happen.. but I gave you an abbreviated summary. Most often the players being traded for were just picked up on waivers and then included in trades for higher priced players... far too frequently to be coincidence.. just look at this one trade..

Date of trade: Mon, 04/12, 02:47:56pm EST

Las Vegas Aces traded:
Lopez, Felipe ($2,780,000)
Phillips, Brandon ($4,170,000)
[b:c27ce1bf53]04/13Big Sur Redwoods dropped Phillips, Brandon[/b:c27ce1bf53]
Coffey, Todd ($2,140,000)

to

Big Sur Redwoods for:
Diaz, Matt ($4,350,000)
Guerrier, Matt ($3,710,000)

[b:c27ce1bf53]04/13Las Vegas Aces added Phillips, Brandon[/b:c27ce1bf53]


not the biggest names in this trade .. but when you trade for Phillips as the ' big name' in return.. and then cut Phillips right away .. surely that has to be very suspicious even for those who find the trading pattern acceptable..this pattern of drops and picks up happened far more frequently than I included in my brief summary

[ROBERTMAVIN]

Date of trade: Thu, 04/22, 07:09:43pm EST

Las Vegas Aces traded:
Cameron, Mike ($4,910,000)
Ethier, Andre ($4,790,000)
Kouzmanoff, Kevin ($3,630,000)
Ordonez, Magglio ($2,320,000)


to

Big Sur Redwoods for:
Cuddyer, Michael ($5,620,000)
Hawpe, Brad ($5,070,000)
Helton, Todd ($7,630,000)
Salazar, Oscar ($7,330,000)

some of the veterans who commented and Bernie might have seen this as a fair trade. O course, like many other instances, they would not have seen the waiver transactions happening around the same time.


04/20 Las Vegas Aces added Cameron, Mike
04/20 Malibu Surfers dropped Cameron, Mike

[b:b2dfc85786]Bernie.. I am in 1st place in the Central Division of this league but am more than willing just to take a credit and drop out of this league. Others in the league likely feel the same.. so you do not have to prove collusion at all.. that might make it a win win for everyone..

This league is only about 25-30 % of the way into the season...[/b:b2dfc85786]

[ROBERTMAVIN]

League: Ballers

Player Set: 2009 season
Skill Level: Standard
Salary Cap: Live Draft
DH rule: yes
Waivers: yes (weighted)


EAST Manager W L PCT GB L10 Strk HM RD vs.L vs.R RS RA
Las Vegas Aces [b:2ab1d34c13]helloo[/b:2ab1d34c13] (169) 25 8 .758 - 8-2 W2 11-4 14-4 12-2 13-6 154 119
indiana needsateam duudelike (5) 21 12 .636 4 7-3 W3 9-6 12-6 8-4 13-8 171 136
Big Sur Redwoods [b:2ab1d34c13]arp333[/b:2ab1d34c13] (1) 15 18 .455 10 3-7 L3 8-7 7-11 4-4 11-14 132 137
New Jersey Midgets II sumomaster (237) 14 19 .424 11 5-5 W3 8-13 6-6 4-4 10-15 119 134

CENTRAL Manager W L PCT GB L10 Strk HM RD vs.L vs.R RS RA
TO Sweat Sox IX bobm1007 (1266) 21 12 .636 - 6-4 L3 7-5 14-7 5-5 16-7 176 129
S-alter Natives El-Saltman (1304) 20 13 .606 1 8-2 W1 10-8 10-5 4-1 16-12 166 134
Malibu Surfers [b:2ab1d34c13]kunzzz[/b:2ab1d34c13] (2) 17 16 .515 4 7-3 W3 8-7 9-9 7-7 10-9 122 124
Silver City Hammer's hammertime23452 (50) 14 19 .424 7 5-5 W4 9-12 5-7 1-4 13-15 155 179

WEST Manager W L PCT GB L10 Strk HM RD vs.L vs.R RS RA
Branson Showstopers nomaddsg (55) 15 18 .455 - 5-5 L1 8-10 7-8 5-4 10-14 155 184
Bacuda Blues gordalini (1256) 13 20 .394 2 1-9 L8 5-7 8-13 5-4 8-16 161 167
Kansas City Royals kramers (221) 12 21 .364 3 3-7 L2 7-11 5-10 2-9 10-12 134 164
New York Metropolitans Aray0113 (4363) 11 22 .333 4 2-8 L4 7-11 4-11 6-11 5-11 149 187

[ROBERTMAVIN]

I guess I forgot to put some thing else into perspective..

- this league is only 33 games into the season..

- the [b:41918b2de8]average[/b:41918b2de8] salary for the Aces is going on $6 million..

= the team salary is over $155 million for 27 players

I suspect some of the veterans who responded might have seen my posts as a bit of sour grapes or just plain whining.. but really, this league has a problem.. I am likely not just as articulate as I should be to illustrate the issues

[keyzick]

I'm confused...you posted that the league cap was $80M, but a team has an avg salary of $6M?

[AeroDave10]

[quote:db6c0a4936="keyzick"]I'm confused...you posted that the league cap was $80M, but a team has an avg salary of $6M?[/quote:db6c0a4936]

These are both live draft leagues, keyzick.

[Salty]

I love love love doing live drafts- but when a guy trades for someone he dropped 2 days earlier...
I'd love a reasonable alternative explanation cause over the short season hes basically traded him his entire roster for guys who were picked up off the waiver wire.

At this point- I think Bob and I who are 1 game apart in the central both know we have good teams- so thats not the issue...

Again im mystified- trading more expensive guys for ones you yourself put on the waiver wire? :?: :evil:

[schnoogens]

Malibu Surfers? Big Sur Redwoods? Both in their first season...hmmm...doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to deduce that they are the same person. They even have similar user names (same character 3 times on the end). And I'm guessing they have a close relationship with Las Vegas Aces (or are the same person).

[ROBERTMAVIN]

Sportingnews is kind enough to send a copy of the live draft results.

[b:3fb426abdf]The Mailbu surfers first 6 draft picks are now on the Las Vegas Aces team
The Big Sur Redwoods 1 2 4 5 rounds draft picks are on the Las Vegas Aces.
[/b:3fb426abdf]

The Aces still have all their first five draft picks.. so they were able to obtain all those high picks from those two teams [b:3fb426abdf]without giving up any of their first 6 picks.. [/b:3fb426abdf]

[b:3fb426abdf]and all these trades were made before game 30[/b:3fb426abdf]

Bernie.. would that be the proof you were asking for to show collusion ??

[ROBERTMAVIN]

[quote:6b83bd7691="keyzick"]I gotta echo Bombers sentiment. I went through all those moves like 3 or 4 times trying to figure out where you might think there's collusion, but I don't really see any. Is it just the quantity of trades you're objecting to?

It's also tough to pull off lopsided trades in an $80M league, so not sure if there's much to this one.[/quote:6b83bd7691]

I hope that you and LM Bomber have tracked some of the additional comments and info.. and no.. the number of trades are not the issue.. and this is a live draft so no cap involved

if you still feel all those moves (and the many additional moves I have not shown ) are reasonable, then please post that position and I will stand down on this issue