Pierre

[milezd]

well, if anything, my bolded "BARELY EFFECTS THE GAME AT ALL" had the effect I was hoping, which was to get a good discussion going regarding this particular subject, a subject which no one seems to have ever addressed.

I still think it barely effects the outcome of your team in the league. What, maybe 1-2 wins a year, at best!


[quote:b6eaa133d6="penngray"]
play the CD-ROM game in NET leagues for only about 10 games and then get back to us.

Play ATG2 and get back to us. +arms will hurt you a lot in any league where batters have speed.

Besides all that, why cant I get into leagues with guys who think like this? :D :D[/quote:b6eaa133d6]

Against a team of all speed the effects may be greater but, how many teams like that would you face in a 12 team league? Given the pool of "speedy" players, maybe (being generous here) 2-3 and then they would all have to be in your division for this argument to hold any shred of merit.

Narrowing the focus of the discussion to include NET CD-ROM games is irrelevant to this discussion as this relates to TSN SOM online in my opinion.

[MICHAELTARBELL]

UH-OH...i feel a STORM coming on! :shock:

[bleacher_creature]

[quote:bd0dc77bd2]Narrowing the focus of the discussion to include NET CD-ROM games is irrelevant to this discussion as this relates to TSN SOM online in my opinion. [/quote:bd0dc77bd2]

This is called "missing the point". What penngray is saying (obviously an experienced player), is that if you don't believe, play some games with a +3 in CF. You will find out how many runs you are losing.

"The point" being that he speaks from experience. Not from theories.

BTW, Babe Ruth is worth more than 10 games over Rey freakin' Ordonez.
Hell, Raul Ibanez is worth more than 10 games over Rey Ordonez.

It's simple math:

-Two out runner on 2nd.
-SINGLE CF.
-Runner/MGR elects to score on Pierre with his "average" 1-12 runner.
-add +2 for a base hit with two outs.
-add +1 for runer not being held.
-add +3 for Pierre's wimpy-ass arm.
-SAFE CHANCE = 1-18.

SAFE CHANCE vs a -1 would be 1-14. Is that a big difference? Yes, because in Strat baseball, this scenario comes up probably at least once a game. Someone correct me if they have played a lot, and think once a game is off.

[DOUGGRAY]

milezd, a valid point about the lack of speed in 2005 so yes if you dont have any opponents with running speed then Pierre is solid. I would say, He is a solid DH and a great backup for Edmonds ;)


Now please put him in against any of my teams :D I hate having slugs on the base path so I do check the player running speed to take advantage of weak arms in the OF. ATG2 and playing the CD-ROM have taught me two things.... Speed, Arms on D matter more then we realize even in 2005.

[i:6db04d11b7]Narrowing the focus of the discussion to include NET CD-ROM games is irrelevant to this discussion as this relates to TSN SOM online in my opinion.[/i:6db04d11b7]

actually this only game runs on that code so its very relevant. What playing the CD-ROM play by play does is give people an understanding of some of the finer points about the game. One of them is how much Defense comes into play during the game. One you play a couple of CD-ROM games in play by play mode you will understand what Im saying.

[BRIANUTTERMARK]

I cant wait, my CD-ROM is on the way. Late bloomer, 70 games into my first SOM online season and hooked. Hopefully after I get the CD-ROM I'll see the effects on SOM online. :D

[LANCEBOUSLEY]

so if on average 20% less score the -1 is worth 32 runs a year over a +3. :shock:

i've always been a fan of minus arms in the OF. Now i see why....

the above situation would on have to come up 50 times for the savings to be 10 runs. hmmmm.......

[milezd]

[quote:47d924f8fd="bleacher_creature"]This is called "missing the point". What penngray is saying (obviously an experienced player), is that if you don't believe, play some games with a +3 in CF. You will find out how many runs you are losing. [/quote:47d924f8fd]

So all of his CD-ROM simulations are 14 team leagues, 162 game simulations based on the TSN SOM model? If that's the case, then yes, it has some relevance. I am sorry if I need more than just the word of someone with experience when my experience is telling me something different.

[quote:47d924f8fd="bleacher_creature"]
It's simple math:

-Two out runner on 2nd.
-SINGLE CF.
-Runner/MGR elects to score on Pierre with his "average" 1-12 runner.
-add +2 for a base hit with two outs.
-add +1 for runer not being held.
-add +3 for Pierre's wimpy-(expletive) arm.
-SAFE CHANCE = 1-18.

SAFE CHANCE vs a -1 would be 1-14. Is that a big difference? Yes, because in Strat baseball, this scenario comes up probably at least once a game. Someone correct me if they have played a lot, and think once a game is off.[/quote:47d924f8fd]

and speaking of "missing the point", I understand how pierre's arm effects a runners chance on scoring, what this discussion is about is the occurrence of this happening, ie, how often this situation comes up over the course of a full 162 game season.

[milezd]

a simple question, who would you take to start in CF? Assume they are identical from an offensive standpoint .

rank them in the order you would take them

player #1 - CF 1(-3)e22
player #2 - CF 2(+3)e2
player #3 - CF 3(-5)e4
player #4 - CF 2(-2)e12

[LANCEBOUSLEY]

2(+3)e2
1(-3)e22 those errors really hurt
2(-2)e12
3(-4)e4

this is according to the star tournaments defensive values system, whatever that is?

[1crazycanuk]

I think I'd go:

3(-4)e4 over 2(-2)e12 because of the better arm and less errors.

I'd take the 1(-3)e22 last because he may have great range and arm but the number of errors seem to negate that. However, if he had a low number of errors, yes he'd be first.