Archive of SportingNews.com's old SOM Baseball forum

Who's the better defensive SS, Guillen with a 2e33 or Renteria with a 3e14?

I don't quite understand at what poing the amount of errors outweighs the higher range rating as far as overall defensive effectiveness.

This is from the much quoted Stuff in Berce:

[quote:ac225ae4dc]shortstop - fielding rating is king
1ss34 = 2e7, better than any other rating
1ss54 = 2ss29 = 3ss4, better than any other rating
1ss84 = 2ss60 = 3ss38 = 4ss10, better than any other rating [/quote:ac225ae4dc]

Given that I think it's Guillen by a whisker.

In my experience Guillen by more than a whisker -from a def POV

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/btf/pages/basesim/stratfldg.htm#SS

According to this chart Renteria 3e14 will let up slightly fewer total bases than Guillen 2e33 per game.

I like [url=http://andrew-stevens.tripod.com/index/stratfield.html]this chart[/url] better, since you can understand what the hell it means.

However, at SS, a critical factor is the [i:907def2cd0]type[/i:907def2cd0] of outs made (most notably DPs), which merely looking at hits vs. errors vs. outs doesn't provide you. Range is significantly more important at SS than either of these methods would tell you.

Basically Renteria is ever so slightly better than Guillen when it comes to OPS given up. The charts don't take dp's into that, and Guillen will get more dp's. Overall probably a slight edge to Guillen defensively, but Renteria is much much cheaper.

Having statistics and charts is nice, don't get me wrong.

I'm a right brain kinda guy. (My wife is a left brain thinker) That's why we get along so well. She hates Strat or else I'd employ her help with my teams...

Questions that come to mind when [b:d38fd091a9]I'M[/b:d38fd091a9] faced with Renteria vs. Guillen:
1. How many LH's will I see? How many RH's?
2. What park am I in?
3. If I get Guillen initially then another good fielding SS becomes available, should I move Guillen to 1B?

ETC...

Many more questions come through my brain, but that's not important right now.

DPs are king.

Spend the money on Jeter and then you don't have to worry about it :wink:

These SS are almost identical. If you consider that a SS has 7 X-chances on the pitchers card here is what those 7 X-chances become when each is in the field:

Guillen

1.48 either a single or error which acts like a single
0.28 either a double or hit+error which acts like a double
0.02 either a triple or hit+error which acts like a triple
0.87 G3
1.16 G2
3.19 G1 (ie. Double Play ball)


Renteria:

1.63 either a single or error which acts like a single
0.16 either a double or hit+error which acts like a double
0.02 either a triple or hit+error which acts like a triple
1.62 G3
1.62 G2
1.94 G1 (ie. Double Play ball)

Guillen actually has a lower OBP allowed, but gives up more TB's. This combined with the additional DP's, probably saves you 1 run over 162 games, so these are effectively the same SS.

Bbrool