Archive of SportingNews.com's old SOM Baseball forum

Look, I hate to keep harping on this, but it's driving me nuts. I'm paying over $7MM for Mike Cameron, allegedly a CF-1 (e7) and he's twice given up hits and made errors -- how can this be happening?

Last time, there was a double and a two-base error. This time, a single and one base error.

People told me last time that this type of play is exclusive to the computer game; the card gives up a hit, the runner goes for the extra base, the OF makes a throwing error. That said, I'm increasingly suspect. Cameron's now made two throwing errors and a couple games back gave up a bases-loaded three base error. Either I'm having a huge run of horrible luck with him in the field and at the plate (.188/.282/.384) or the guy is seriously miscoded.

41 games into the season, he's made three errors and every one of them has lost us the game. He's on track to make 12 errors, almost twice his rating. Thoughts?

Here's the playbyplay:

*** BOTTOM OF INNING 3 ***
0 C.Counsell 3 Double b-2
0 2 M.Loretta 2 Single & Error - CF 2-H b-2
0 2 J.Rollins 3 Double 2-H b-2
0 2 G.Sizemore 4 Single 2-H b-1
0 1 V.Guerrero 1 Single 1-3 b-1
0 1 3 1 Stolen Base 1-2
0 23 T.Hafner 7 Single 3-H 2-3 b-1
0 1 3 P.Konerko 4 Single 3-H 1-3 b-1
SUBSTITUTE P - Bob Howry
0 1 3 R.Hernandez 3 Strike Out b-0
1 1 3 J.Bay 1 Single 3-H 1-2 b-1
1 12 C.Counsell 5 Strike Out b-0
2 12 M.Loretta 4 Pop Out b-0

Tom,

I know you don't want to hear it, but that fits right in to what the computer game would do.

You had Counsell on 2B, and Loretta hit a single ... and Counsell was waved home. Cameron's throw was not cut off, and there was a throwing error.

I'm not certain how the throwing errors are coded (I'd have to examine the paper rules again, if it even is)... but I think it's safe to say the throwing errors are not related to the fielding.

I think you can be a cf 1(-3)e0 and still get a throwing error.

I think you're just having bad luck ... which is not unusual. Beleive me, I can gripe about many of my guys and their issues. :(

Doc

Cameron slugged a two-out two-run HR in the 8th to break open a tie game last night, so I'm feeling magnaminous this AM. The good doctor's explanation is feasible, if frustrating, and so far nothing that has happened this season to Cameron in CF is beyond the realm of explanation, though it has been horrible, horrible luck.

Thanks, Dr. B; I appreciate your weighing in. Onward!

tws

No problem ... after all, it's like dealing with HAL issues ... sort of makes all of us a "Band of Brothers."

Doc

tws...one more note...although not the exact fielding chart...courtesy of the baseball think factory...here are the probabilities of a hit and an error by a 1 range cf with an e7 rating....it can happen.

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/btf/pages/basesim/stratfldg.htm#CF

Thanks, Meat. Very cool link. Saved in my bookmarks....

tws

Very interesting, in the board game, OF 1's cannot give up a hit under any circumstances. Guess the computer game is different OR, maybe what they have essentially done is add a T-Rating for OF'ers. Course then the chart that you link would be incorrect.

Hmmm, which is it?

Jet
www.angelfire.com/games5/joethejet

I'm still trying to figure out how it was determined that Cameron gave up the single since I don't see a PAC chart, or any dice roll listing, on TSN game page. How do you know it was an X chart single on Cameron?

Given that Cameron is a 1, the single is not off the X-chart. It is off the pitcher's or hitter's card. Then the error occurs when he throws trying to catch an advancing runner; that is a computer-only rule. This has been a recording.

(Because errors are relatively rare events, they can fluctuate a lot. If a guy is "supposed" to make, let's say, nine errors in a season, it's very easy for him to make only three, and just as easy for him to make 18. It only takes a difference of a handful of rolls, within the thousands you'll make in a season, for such things to happen. I'm sure we have all seen those kind of fluctuations, with error-prone and sure-handed fielders alike.)