mysterious "caught stealing": HAL's free will?

[ClowntimeIsOver]

On my 2003 team, Guiel was on first (the only runner) with two out and Difelice was batting. Bottom of fourth, winning 3-2.

Guiel was set at "don't steal" and Difelice at "don't hit and run" and "don't bunt." Guiel: stealing-(D) 2-5/8,10 (13-5). Difelice: H&R- D, bunting- D.

The manager settings were "steal normal" and "hit and run conservative." I can't remember what bunting was, but it was definitely not "very aggressive" (and there were two out).

The opposing battery was a minus-4 hold and a plus-one throw.

Then this:

*** BOTTOM OF INNING 4 ***
J.Randa 4 Line Out b-0
S.Finley 6 Fly Out b-0
A.Guiel 3 Single b-1
1 Caught Stealing 1-o

So what happened? Was the 2003 game less reliable for manager's settings? Was it something on the cather's card? Or what?

[Mean Dean]

In the early versions of the game, "don't steal" meant "don't steal [i:102cc7c660]if held[/i:102cc7c660]." So if Guiel wasn't held on (which he might not be, since he doesn't have a *), and the computer liked his chances, it might still attempt to steal with him, in those versions.

[killer_elite]

-edit-

Edited to take out missinformation

[msheaf1]

[quote:77cfc58a6c="killer_elite"]If you attempt to advance on the throw and get thrown out it goes in the book as a CS. So my guess is it was a Straight SINGLE and Guiel attempted to advance to second challenging the OF arm and was thrown out. Its recorded as a Single and CS.[/quote:77cfc58a6c]

???????? HUH ??????????? If he was on first then he will go to second on a single, if he tries to go to third and is thrown out that is not a CS. Maybe I'm just missing something here but me confused.

[teepack]

Getting thrown out trying to take an extra base is not a caught stealing.

It may have been in the old days, because I know that they used to give you a stolen base if you went from first to third on a single, for instance, or scored from first on a double. But this was back in the 19th century.

[killer_elite]

hmm.. You are right.. that is a rule we created to make it more enjoyable to manage in a F2F league. A batter may not attempt to stretch a single into a double based on the actual rules. At least not that I can find.


This CS was probably a "missed pitch" on a hit and run or HAL just decided it was time for your inning to be up ;)

[LARRYLANG]

My interpetation of it is HAL tried to get a lead and an 8 or 10 was rolled and he was picked off which would be considered a CS.

[teepack]

Actually, Dean had the right interpretation up above. It was two outs, so the computer probably decided not to hold the runner, which meant that the runner could go without trying to get the lead. With a -3 combo at pitcher and catcher, the runner had a 1-10 chance of stealing second. I have set my last few teams as aggressive on base stealing and I have noticed that a lot of my caught stealings come with two outs and a runner on first. I think the computer is programmed to try to get that extra base when there are two outs in order to get a runner in scoring position. In the 2003 version, as Dean says, marking a player as "don't steal' would not apply in this case, for some reason.

[ClowntimeIsOver]

Thanks for all the responses. It's frustrating to learn that "don't steal" (absent a failed bunt or hit and run) isn't absolute ... but useful to know.

[Mean Dean]

[quote:7198a76033] It was two outs, so the computer probably decided not to hold the runner, which meant that the runner could go without trying to get the lead. [/quote:7198a76033]That's not technically accurate; since he doesn't have the *, he does have to try to get the lead. But, either he was caught stealing right away as [b:7198a76033]Pelzer[/b:7198a76033] suggests (and 8 & 10 is actually quite a high chance of that), or he was thrown out by the catcher in the manner we're more used to.

[quote:7198a76033]It's frustrating to learn that "don't steal" (absent a failed bunt or hit and run) isn't absolute[/quote:7198a76033]It is in the more recent versions (I am not sure exactly when the change was made.)