HELP The affect of the closer rating

[Harold Homers]

I am trying to become clearer on the effect that the closer rating has on a player
What is the difference between a C6, C3 or no C have on a performance of a relief pitcher .
I am presently in a number of new 2011 leagues and am sorting my RP out and try to understand what would be the effect on puting someone with a low C rating in as my closer (great WHIP and ERA but C1) compared to (ok WHIP and ERA but C6)

ANY ADVISE WOULD BE HELPFUL

Harold

[gbrookes]

Harold, I waited awhile to post a reply to this, just to see if someone else was going to jump in quickly. I have played the board game of strat for 40 years now, but I am relatively new to the CD and online versions of the game (from about 4 years ago).

The closer rating makes a difference in terms of how quickly a pitcher begins to tire, in closer situations. In my experience playing the CD game, this effect appears to be to add pitches to the "target" or "permissible" pitch count for a good C rating pitcher. However, I have been told by people with more experience than I have, that the online version of the game uses the traditional board game rule for the closer effect - that the C rating reflects the number of "outs" that a closer can pitch before being potentially subject to tiring.

I think that there is general agreement that the rules for what happens when a pitcher "tires" have become more subtle and sophisticated in the online and CD versions than in the original board game. The online version uses the F system, which measures the extent to which the pitcher has tired. Others have posted that the F0 rating doesn't even provide the final measurement, since a pitcher can get progressively "worse" even after he has hit F0.

I think that there are 2 schools of thought for the closer strategy. (1) Just get a darn good reliever - hopefully with at least a C1 or C2, or better - and get him as many quality innings as possible, including setup AND closer designations. (2) Separate the set-up and closer roles, with a closer having a good C rating (C4 or better).

I think it would be asking for trouble to try to use a pitcher with NO C rating ("N") as a closer.

I would ask others to join in on the use of low C ratings pitchers as closer (i.e. the first strategy listed above), since that is something that I have avoided.

My own preference to date has been to use the second strategy.

The problem with the second strategy is that you just don't get many innings for the closer when you use them in a restrictive closer role. I have occasionally used an expensive closer. When I have done this, I always end up feeling that the salary $ were somewhat wasted. I have never had a positive experience where I used an expensive closer restrictively. I always feel like the team is suffering due to lack of $ elsewhere, and the lack of innings from the closer.

What I almost always do with the second strategy is to try to find a good pure closer, but not great, for relatively lower salary cost. It doesn't always work, but it works more often than you might think. The best closer for cheap dollars that I have used was Francisco Cordero in the 2009 set. I think this was the best year that I got from him:

http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/stratomatic/team/team_other.html?user_id=261472

This was in a $60 million cap league. I think cheap closers are relatively more effective in a smaller cap league. When the hitting is better (in higher cap leagues), the extra base hits or walks given up by the closer on his card tend to get "punished" more often.

This is the best closer performance that I have had so far, in the 2008 season with Matt Capps:

http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/stratomatic/team/team_other.html?user_id=214060

At about $4 million in salary, Capps isn't exactly cheap, but he isn't the most expensive closer either. And this is my thesis - that if you use a closer restrictively, try not to avoid wasting extra dollars on him.

Another favourite cheap closer of mine was BJ Ryan, at $3 million in the 2008 cards:

http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/stratomatic/team/team_other.html?user_id=226763

http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/stratomatic/team/team_other.html?user_id=218964

These are the only 2 teams that I have had win championships. Both had Ryan as closer. The second link above might be the most interesting. Ryan had a BAD YEAR as closer, with a high ERA, but still closed out 80% of his opportunities. That team won 91 games, finished 2nd in its division, and won the championship!

The reason why I like the second strategy for closer is that I personally HATE the idea of having pitchers tire very much. This is more a personal preference, I think, but I haven't changed my mind in the last 4 years. I do let pitchers have slow hooks, but I don't like to see them get below F4. I realize that a good pitcher can still be effective when he is tired, but I would rather that my closer wasn't tired. Having said that, I have found that I had some bad results with Cordero in the 2009 set. I think a closer with a salary of around $3-4 million (and someone whose card you "like") is a good plan for the second strategy (restrictive closer use).

Wow. Guess I have found this interesting over the years.

I am really interested to hear what other long-time gamers have to say, for either of these 2 strategies!

Enjoy!

[coyote303]

I would never have a closer that isn't at least C3, and in practice I never go below C5 and usually get a C6. HAL likes to bring your closer in sometimes in the 8th inning, so a C6 does matter.

Like Geoff, I tend to go for a value closer in the 2-3.5 million dollar range. I have recently developed a new strategy: get a second cheap closer and use him as a backup for closing and mop-up only. I've lost too many extra inning games because both of my closers were used up and some poor sap gets inserted into the game at F0 only to get blasted.

I'll leave it to someone else to explain the nuts and bolts how the closer rating works. Suffice it to say for now, you don't want your closer to have a C1 rating (or worse).

One last point is the closer rules only affect the 20xx games and the 90s game.

[geekor]

lies all of it.

[durantjerry]

I have used C3's and C2's a pretty good amount as closer. I find Hal uses them pretty judiciously and I have had good success with cheaper guys. Afterall, they don't have to do too much. Big difference to me is I can't really stretch the C2 and C3 too far out of the closer role to fill additional bullpen roles like I can with a C6, so I have to spend more $$$ on set up as opposed to with a C6. Maybe if they are an R2 you can also use them as set up, but most will only be R1's. Tough to spend a lot on an C3 or less when they are so limited with respect to IP.

[geekor]

Tell that to Dotel circa 2002 :P

All the C rating does is say how many batter someone can face before they are fatigued.

If the pitcher has a damn good card, even the fatigue still makes it better than other options, and I run them into the ground as setup and closer.

I also don't ever feel it is worth putting a lot of $$ into 1 inning. Those guys who spend 5 mil on a closer then get 60 innings out of them are throwing $$ down the drain. I'd much rather have a cheap 1-3 mil closer and throw money at someone who can get me 150-250 innings in relief.

Hell my next team I'm using a Soria/Iss closer platoon. Then I have Aceves to eat the rest of the innings.

And yes I''m one of those guys who has used dominant C0 has closer and setup in past seasons with no real ill effects. The closer rating is a bit overrated IMHO.

[gbrookes]

[quote:096b6d57ad="geekor"]Tell that to Dotel circa 2002 :P

All the C rating does is say how many batter someone can face before they are fatigued.

If the pitcher has a damn good card, even the fatigue still makes it better than other options, and I run them into the ground as setup and closer.

I also don't ever feel it is worth putting a lot of $$ into 1 inning. Those guys who spend 5 mil on a closer then get 60 innings out of them are throwing $$ down the drain. I'd much rather have a cheap 1-3 mil closer and throw money at someone who can get me 150-250 innings in relief.

Hell my next team I'm using a Soria/Iss closer platoon. Then I have Aceves to eat the rest of the innings.

And yes I''m one of those guys who has used dominant C0 has closer and setup in past seasons with no real ill effects. The closer rating is a bit overrated IMHO.[/quote:096b6d57ad]

Thanks for expressing the other point of view, geekor!! I laughed at the earlier post - "Lies, all of it!".

I know a lot of players use the approach that you are describing, so I'm glad you made your post. Interesting stuff!!!!

[Harold Homers]

I much appreicate all of the thoughful responses -the closers role is one of the many things about this game that I am still trying to figure out . I have uses $$$ closers (rarely do I feel that i get my money worth) bullpen by committee alowing HAL to pick (in this situation I have usually three decent RP (2 -3 m with C2 or more ratings ) mixed results and the cheap version usually in 80m or 60m leagues again with mixed results .
So I do thank you for your collective wisdom. My preference has been a stud closer and a second cheaper closer (2m or less) I have had little success with specialist like 9LP relievers .
I do have a few favorite Closers -Dick the Monster ATG set -Billy Wagner seems to do well for me (conversely i have never had much success with Hoffman) Tom Henke is another one that has worked for me.

Again thank you for your comments.



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