Is there really a problem with computer bullpen management?

[bernieh]

I'm sure this is gonna be a hot debate, but I'm gonna get to the bottom of this, and I'm ready to take it on.

As you know, I have ventured into Strat-O-Matic's proprietary game engine code and have been trying to figure things out. I've put traces in the bullpen logic functions and have been reviewing them for a little while now. What's jumped out at me is this following theory:

[b:14d6937bfa]Most of the perceived failings of the computer's bullpen management are actually the result of small, overworked, or over-restricted bullpens.[/b:14d6937bfa]

The game engine was originally written to manage teams which are constructed similarly to real-life teams - i.e. with 11-man staffs, and 5- or 6-man bullpens. It does an effective job with them, and produces realistic results over the course of a full season. As I'm following along with the leagues that you're playing now, all I'm seeing everywhere are small (4-man), overworked bullpens, and every other pitcher set to "Avoid" something or other. Thus, in a given relief situation, the computer manager does the best it can with very few choices, and that only makes it harder for each successive decision it has to make, and then you'll see it seemingly "ignore" some of the settings you've assigned. If you have 1 guy set as a closer, 2 guys set to avoid lefties, and another guy set to avoid being used before the 8th, that doesn't leave the computer a lot of options in a crucial 6th inning situation.

It is my opinion, and that of some prominent members of the SOM Online community, that if you carry a large, [i:14d6937bfa]realistic[/i:14d6937bfa] enough bullpen (at least 5 eligible guys, preferably even 6), that you'll see that HAL will do a good job managing it.

This said, [b:14d6937bfa]I am giving you the opportunity to convince me otherwise.[/b:14d6937bfa] I could say, "there's no changing the code," but I WON'T. I am prepared to make necessary changes, IF I am convinced that there is a problem. I think this is a fair approach. I'm starting another thread in which you can post specific examples of what you think are poor relief decisions.

Thanks,
Bernie

[LMBombers]

Bernie, I think the AI for RP works just fine. I think some people may only want to invest in 2 or 3 good RP (sometime even less) and fill the rest with bad .50 ones that they don't want to see pitch except to one batter or two. They want their 2 or 3 good RP to pitch every game in all important RP opportunities.

It doesn't work that way in real life and it doesn't work that way in TSN SOM. If you have crappy RPs on your roster then expect them to pitch and pitch poorly. You get what you pay for.

I think what DOES need to be looked at is HAL's decision on who to replace injured players with. Right now it seems like HAL will take the best hitter elligible for that position regardless of his defensive rating. I think most of us use our best hitters in our everyday lineups. If one goes down we would at least like the replacement player to play good defense while waiting for the starter to come back.

For example lets say your starting 2B goes down with injury and you have two other players on your roster that are 2B elligible. Reserve player A is a 2e24 at 2B and in your mind is your backup 2B. Player B is a slightly better hitter than player A but is your primary backup 3B but is also elligible to play 2b with a rating of 4e44. HAL will put in the slightly better hitter, player B, even though he will kill you in the field.

I think a scenario like the above example is much more of an issue than how the AI uses the bullpen, at least to me.

[The Biomechanical Man]

Bernie, this may be a little off-subject, but I think the biggest problem with the pitchers is that their hitting rating is being ignored, and all pitchers are being given the Pitcher-1 hitting card. Here are the data that support this claim: [url=http://forums-beta.sportingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=9899]Pitcher-1[/url].

Can you comment on this?

[the splinter]

Bernie

Why don't you create a league and track 2 teams pens. Run the same league again with but this time have the 2 test teams expand their pen. Repeat 100 times. Share the data.

[1crazycanuk]

I think for the most part the bullpen is run the best way it can be run, according to what settings we put in. What I hate is when Clemens gets pulled in the 6th inning when he's only allowed 1 or 2 runs and my BAD relief pitchers come in and get shelled. :shock:

[worrierking]

I agree with LMB. Hal has a strange way of determining who will play and where when somebody gets hurt. Ever have Sheffield? I guarantee that with every injury Hal will find a way to move six guys around just so he can play Sheff at third, creating as many fours and fives as possible. If you own Ricky Ledee on your bench and your right fielder gets hurt, he won't stick Ledee at RF, he'll put Ledee in Center and move your CF to right.

At some point perhaps a setting can be created where you could check "Avoid playing Third base" where Hal would only play somebody like Sheffield there as a last resort rather than a first option.

I don't have any problems with Hal running the bullpen. He does yank starters too quickly, but once you learn his quirks he's ok.

[bernieh]

Please stay on-topic for now. I'll address other issues in due time. Thanks.

[visick]

I think splinter has a great idea.

Or you could give out a few teams here to some owners that have different strategies. How about giving out say 5 teams to guys with the best winning record or most titles , worst winning record and someone in between. (Based upon games played...)

This could give you an indication of how the manager/HAL is running things.

I for one would like to see the same options online as there are on the cd-rom game.

The substitution thing kills me. The other night I have Glaus go down and instead of HAL bringing in his backup (Wiggington) he brings in Saenz, my DH vs. LH's) to play 3rd. Saenz is listed as my DH in the lineup vs. LH's.

[visick]

Bernie...

Maybe guys could give you examples of what happens late in a game with their pens?

We would also need to see their bullpens AND what happened the previous games though...

[visick]

duh...

Just read down a bit and saw your other thread Bernie.

Good idea...Glad "I" thought of it. :D