Bullpen Problem?

[nevdully's]

Sometimes in higher cap leagues I like to use Babe Adams as my rp....I list him in this order, middle, tied, behind, setup, closer and mop up....No other rps listed

The reason I list mop up last is (as explained by Bernie) its least priority.

Sometimes they use Adams a ton, sometimes "not at all."

FYI when I use pure rps this way they "always" get used a ton.

I think the problem, and I do think its a problem, is HAL reading Adams as a top sp first, therefore holding him back from rp usage. Bernie stated as much when I questioned him the first time on this...Now I think HAL overriding my rp instructions just because HAL reads him as a starter is crap and should be fixed.

Now I know I can list my rotation with my 4 sps, excluding Adams, and do, but don't think I should have too.

Still the problem exists...Bernie then responded that having him listed as mop-up even last on the list could be mucking up the works.

So I removed him from mop-up....

Still on opening night with a 3 games needing rps Adams went completely unused.
:x

The response I got from Bernie was troubling to me (I'll print it) and explain why, both on a small scale, (this specific problem) and a larger scale the health of Bernie's job and the future of this game once we are under SOM.


Here's Bernie's explanation...

[quote:e981daa810][b:e981daa810]I’ve told you this quite a few times before: listing the same guy In every Bullpen Role is only asking for trouble.[/b:e981daa810] Here’s the email I sent you 2 months ago on Feb. 23:



“It does work that way in general, but what’s important to keep in mind is that Roles affect usage tendencies beyond just what situation is at hand. As we’ve gone over before, setting someone as a Closer affects whether the computer will use him in other situations (setting Relief Usage to “Maximize” will be stricter; “Normal” will be less strict), and similarly, setting someone as Mop-up (wherever it is in the priority list) will lean towards Mopup usage.”



Specifically, I’ll recommend that you definitely remove Adams from the Mop-up Role because that definitely will mess with his usage. You can TRY to leave him set for the rest of them, but do so at your own risk, considering what I’ve told you. Please keep this in mind.[/quote:e981daa810]

Here's some concerns....First we know that listing the guy in many roles is not asking for trouble...We all seen the posts of rps getting 300+ innings and explanations of this exact or similar set-up as I've described.[b:e981daa810] Bernie doesn't see its more to do with Babe being an sp/rp so instead he forwards inaccurate information [/b:e981daa810]

Mop-up if listed last in order of priority SHOULD HAVE ZERO BEARING ON A BOTTOM OF THE 9TH SAVE SITUATION IF CLOSER IS LISTED HIGHER!!!!!

I should not have to list 4 or 5 other sps in the rotation to get HAL to follow my instructions/settings to use Babe Adams in relief.

So whats the problem Bernie HAL reading him as an sp and holding him back as you first said months ago....OR me listing him at mop-up even though it was his lowest priority...OR just that its asking for trouble to slot him in middle set-up closer roles OR that he's an sp/rp (which is what I think) 3 private messages three different reasons...not satisfactory to me

Bernie is busier now than ever and hopefully many things will work better, smoother or be fixed, but this can't be fixed if Bernie doesn't see it as a problem...I've spent more money here than anyone and my patience is growing thin with poor answers from Bernie....I fear SOM will want a tighter ship run by Bernie and I'm not sure they'll get it, putting Bernie and the game in jeopardy...


This is one of many examples that can be easily fixed, or at least properly explained, but aren't properly addressed...one of many...this one is not why I'd leave, just one of many, that add up to a frustrating gaming experience.

[danielz]

I have trouble with my bull pen too. Every time Hal brings them in, they get shelled.

[george barnard]

I'm having the same trouble with Ray Kremer on one of my teams. I have him listed at various roles along with 2 other pitchers, one an *SP/RP like Kremer (Carmen Hill) and a pure RP (Miljus). Through 20 games, Kremer hadn't pitched one inning. The other two had, even the two scrubs had. I'm wondering if HAL doesn't think I'm crazy to use my most expensive *SP/RP strictly as a reliever and refuses to believe me, thinking that Kremer will certainly be used as a starter in the next series (he's not listed in the rotation). I finally succumbed and used Kremer as a starter if only to get him innings and that's fine, but I was hoping to use a trio of strong relievers, a strategy that has worked for me at least a couple of times.

Bill

[FUDU]

I'm with nev on this, way too many question marks concerning how HAL allows one role to affect the other, when the former role never came into play in the game as opposed to the latter.

[Badjam]

In the record books for most innings pitched I see Adams in three of the top four spots with around 400 innings. Someone must be getting the use out of him.

Has something changed that it is now harder to get a ton of innings out of Adams? I hardly use the super reliever so I haven't noticed any problems. I have had no problem getting around 150 innings a season out of Camitz or Chance in 200mil or live draft leagues. Are you trying for more than 150innings or so?
Here is a completed team at 200mil that I got 168 innings out of Adams. For my team, 168 is a lot of innings because of the quality of starters.

http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/stratomatic/team/team_other.html?user_id=374490

Settings were:
Middle Adams
Setup Adams
Tied 9+ Adams
Tied late Adams
Middle Short
Setup Short
Tied 9+ Short
Tied late Short
Behind late Hughes
Behind late Hiller
Mopup Adams
Lefty spec Burgmeier

[nevdully's]

Sometimes HAL uses Adams plenty "in relief" (as I said above) but sometimes not much at all. I dare not say never but explain this which happens often..



Example

Why bring Linzy not listed at all to close and not Adams?

Game 1
http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/stratomatic/league/boxscore.html?group_id=164349&g_id=6


Why 2 others not listed being used and not Adams?

Game 2
http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/stratomatic/league/boxscore.html?group_id=164349&g_id=12

and here 3 other rps but not Adams

Game 3
http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/stratomatic/league/boxscore.html?group_id=164349&g_id=18

[Badjam]

I don't look at the box scores very close usually. Was Linzy listed as righty specialist? One thing I noticed is Hal goes by price, I think, when assuming starters. If Adams is better than all of your starters than you have to set the four starters you want to use in the rotation option as you mentioned earlier.
Also, I have noticed bullpen usage being a little whacked more so in games one through three until Hal can pick up on your pattern of starter usage but that might just be a hunch.

[nevdully's]

No other rps were listed as anything.

If the setting is Adams for middle relief then thats it...we shouldn't have to wait for HAL to see our patterns, or list other sps in our rotation, or set the next nights starters, or wonder if HAL decides to "hold him back" as Bernie stated...etc

[Badjam]

I agree the settings are not as rigid as we would like. On any team I have that my bullpen guy is also one of my four most expensive starters then I always set my rotation. It's not perfect but necessary to maximize my bullpen guy. Kind of a "can't beat em join em" approach like any of the other trial and error aspects of the game. Probably time for an improved bullpen logic when time allows. I think you guys did a great job on this current bullpen logic judging by the improvements over the previous settings.

But, I'm still kind of baffled how people get 400 innings out of Adams considering the weaknesses you have pointed out.

[bkeat23]

The issue some of the time has nothing to do with Pen settings, it's having to list a rotation just to get Adams or any high priced SP/RP to get used out of the pen. HAL assumes the top$$ guy will start the next game unless there's a rotation set.

My .02.