Johnny Damon Hall Of Famer?
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by FRANKMANSUETO » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:56 pm
Damon gets to 3,000 hits he is a LOCK for the HOF. Maybe not a first ballot but at some point he will be in. Just my 2 cents.
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by JEROMEWILKINS » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:04 pm
yea well Robert Marrinville is no HOF either. .258 lifetime hitter HOF....gimme a break. Ozzie Smith compared to Rizzuto's value yes you're right very comparable but Rizzuto is not a HOF either. Neither is Pee Wee Reese. Ozzie Smith is no HOF. Forget this Gold Glove nonsense for anyone. My goodness Rafael Palmiero won a gold glove at 1B in a year he was primarily a DH. Gold Glove awards are kinda of a joke. I love the Yankees and Derek Jeter and I watched every Yankee game last year...he was not a gold glover. The problem with baseball now is everyone is a stat junkie. You are not a HOF just because you played 20 years and accumulated numbers. All I know is my beloved game of baseball is not the same anymore. Oh where have you gone...Joe Dimaggio & Mickey & Willie & The Splendid Splinter & The Babe & The Iron Horse & Stan the Man & Sandy They have been replaced by the stat geeks and Ozzie & Bill Maz ...I think not.
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by ozziesmith » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:23 pm
[quote:810726bb79="mryank7"]yea well Robert Marrinville is no HOF either. .258 lifetime hitter HOF....gimme a break. Ozzie Smith compared to Rizzuto's value yes you're right very comparable but Rizzuto is not a HOF either. Neither is Pee Wee Reese. Ozzie Smith is no HOF. Forget this Gold Glove nonsense for anyone. My goodness Rafael Palmiero won a gold glove at 1B in a year he was primarily a DH. Gold Glove awards are kinda of a joke. I love the Yankees and Derek Jeter and I watched every Yankee game last year...he was not a gold glover. The problem with baseball now is everyone is a stat junkie. You are not a HOF just because you played 20 years and accumulated numbers. All I know is my beloved game of baseball is not the same anymore. Oh where have you gone...Joe Dimaggio & Mickey & Willie & The Splendid Splinter & The Babe & The Iron Horse & Stan the Man & Sandy They have been replaced by the stat geeks and Ozzie & Bill Maz ...I think not.[/quote:810726bb79]
I hear what you are saying, but in my biased viewpoint................Ozzie's trade to the Cardinals by Herzog for Templeton (at the time the top offensive SS in the game) set the table for the Cardinals three World Series trips in the 80's and was the heart and soul of a team built on speed and solid defense. Pitching was mediocre and power hitting was Hendrick in the early 80's and Clark later................but no other real power.
After his first couple years with the Cardinals, he became a true offensive threat..............not by the bloated 90's standards...............but certainly on the style of play the Cardinals excelled at during his career.
He was a difference maker that made his team much better. To me he is HOF. You can have your opinion....................but it won't change mine. 8-)
I hear what you are saying, but in my biased viewpoint................Ozzie's trade to the Cardinals by Herzog for Templeton (at the time the top offensive SS in the game) set the table for the Cardinals three World Series trips in the 80's and was the heart and soul of a team built on speed and solid defense. Pitching was mediocre and power hitting was Hendrick in the early 80's and Clark later................but no other real power.
After his first couple years with the Cardinals, he became a true offensive threat..............not by the bloated 90's standards...............but certainly on the style of play the Cardinals excelled at during his career.
He was a difference maker that made his team much better. To me he is HOF. You can have your opinion....................but it won't change mine. 8-)
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by JEROMEWILKINS » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:26 pm
as you can see HOF is a touchy subject for me. Current or recently retired players who should be going in HOF. I am throwing out the steroid issue for now...because that is a whole new can of worms. I am sure I will leave out some guys here. Randy Johnson, Hoffman, Rivera, Piazza, Clemens, Bonds, AROD, Jeter, Bagwell, Maddux, Pedro Martinez, Frank Thomas, McGwire, Pujols, Ichiro, Griffey, Thome (?), Helton (?), ....who else?
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by JEROMEWILKINS » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:47 pm
Just curious when Ozzie Smith's offensive threat kicks in?
79-.211 80-.230 81-.222 82-.248 83- .243 84-.257 85-.276
86-.280 87-.303 88-.270 89-.273 90-.254 91-.285 92-.295
93-.288 94-.262 95-.199
That's 17 years and exactly one year over.300 (barely)...if you average out those years it is.259 I think he scored 100 runs once. I am not questioning his defensive ability but offensively he was dreadful.
79-.211 80-.230 81-.222 82-.248 83- .243 84-.257 85-.276
86-.280 87-.303 88-.270 89-.273 90-.254 91-.285 92-.295
93-.288 94-.262 95-.199
That's 17 years and exactly one year over.300 (barely)...if you average out those years it is.259 I think he scored 100 runs once. I am not questioning his defensive ability but offensively he was dreadful.
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by alvarndc » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:27 pm
Lies, damn lies and statitstics.
Johnny Damon IS NOT a Hall of Famer.
That being said, if he gets 3000 hits, there will almost certainly be a groundswell that will lead to him getting in.
But sorry, IMHO, he doesn't pass the smell test for the Hall of Fame.
Johnny Damon IS NOT a Hall of Famer.
That being said, if he gets 3000 hits, there will almost certainly be a groundswell that will lead to him getting in.
But sorry, IMHO, he doesn't pass the smell test for the Hall of Fame.
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by ozziesmith » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:50 pm
[quote:a862caf0a7="mryank7"]Just curious when Ozzie Smith's offensive threat kicks in?
79-.211 80-.230 81-.222 82-.248 83- .243 84-.257 85-.276
86-.280 87-.303 88-.270 89-.273 90-.254 91-.285 92-.295
93-.288 94-.262 95-.199
That's 17 years and exactly one year over.300 (barely)...if you average out those years it is.259 I think he scored 100 runs once. I am not questioning his defensive ability but offensively he was dreadful.[/quote:a862caf0a7]
Not sure I get you? On one hand you said you hate stat geeks, then on the other hand you use stats to discredit a guy that was the heart and soul of a team stats did not do justice for. Look at the Cardinals three WS teams from the 80's era that Smith played in and you won't find many pretty stats for anyone. Yet they won on defense and speed..............a concept fans don't really see today. By the second WS trip of the 80's for the Cards, Ozzie was regularly hitting second in the lineup and providing all kinds of key hits. If you want to be a stat geek and try to compare his stats to SS with the big power numbers....................well then go ahead and bury your head in the reference books.................but you might enjoy raising up your head and actually watching the game and see who the real difference makers were on some teams.
Look you are not going to convince me that Ozzie is undeserving of the HOF, so save your typing.
:wink:
79-.211 80-.230 81-.222 82-.248 83- .243 84-.257 85-.276
86-.280 87-.303 88-.270 89-.273 90-.254 91-.285 92-.295
93-.288 94-.262 95-.199
That's 17 years and exactly one year over.300 (barely)...if you average out those years it is.259 I think he scored 100 runs once. I am not questioning his defensive ability but offensively he was dreadful.[/quote:a862caf0a7]
Not sure I get you? On one hand you said you hate stat geeks, then on the other hand you use stats to discredit a guy that was the heart and soul of a team stats did not do justice for. Look at the Cardinals three WS teams from the 80's era that Smith played in and you won't find many pretty stats for anyone. Yet they won on defense and speed..............a concept fans don't really see today. By the second WS trip of the 80's for the Cards, Ozzie was regularly hitting second in the lineup and providing all kinds of key hits. If you want to be a stat geek and try to compare his stats to SS with the big power numbers....................well then go ahead and bury your head in the reference books.................but you might enjoy raising up your head and actually watching the game and see who the real difference makers were on some teams.
Look you are not going to convince me that Ozzie is undeserving of the HOF, so save your typing.
:wink:
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by JedimasterTjg1 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:10 pm
I agree that if he gets 3000 hits he WILL get in but that doesn't mean he is a HOF. There will be in the future, when a generation passes, a bunch of tainted ballplayers that time will forgive...We are the most forgiving people and this will be no exception. Time heals all... :cry:
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by JEROMEWILKINS » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:28 pm
I promise you at age 59 I have watched more baseball than most. I do not pay much attention to stats but when someone says Ozzie was an offensive force I have to laugh and check it out. I grew up with Mantle and Mays....I have seen plenty of baseball so when I get in these disagreements with guys ...usually they have not witnessed a game before the 70's. If you want a SS from Ozzie's era that was also a defensive wizard and actually was an offensive force and incredibly valuable to his team and is not in the HOF....I refer to Alan Trammel.
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by JEROMEWILKINS » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:35 pm
one last thing...you do know it is impossible to make an error on astro turf other than throws. I played on it way back when when it was a novelty and played SS in college...I could not make an error other than throws if I tried. No such thing as a bad hop.
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