He may be "colorful" and "eccentric" ...
by scorehouse » Wed May 02, 2012 6:50 pm
i don't thinking he's blaming jackie at all. he sees thru the perpetuation of a huge injustice. i wish jackie and howard cosell were alive to address this issue!
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by Valen » Wed May 02, 2012 9:43 pm
[quote:e12d33804a] i think the heirs of those negro teams should sue MLB for billions for what they did[/quote:e12d33804a]
Baseball should be sued for ending segregation in the game? Really, is that where we are now? As part of that settlement should MLB agree to bar minorities from the game again? Would you be happier if Mays, Bob Gibson, Bonds, and countless others had never been allowed to play and the leagues kept seperate?
[quote:e12d33804a]if this were true integration and not MLB imperialism, a few negro franchises should have survived with white players[/quote:e12d33804a]
There was no law against them staying in business and hiring white players. And there was nobody holding a gun to any players head and forcing them to play for MLB. Any or all of the players from the negro leagues could have chosen to continue playing for their teams and the owners of those teams could have continued to field teams. If you are paying money someone will take it.
Perhaps the problem was that while MLB was willing to integrate the negro league teams were not. But we cannot consider that because it ruins a perfectly good victim scenario.
Oil Can Boyd and others may not appreciate what Jackie did and there may be many like him who wish MLB had never integrated. But I will go on record as saying thank you Mr. Robinson. And I will go further and say thanks to Bob Gibson and Lou Brock and many others too numerous to mention for being willing to play along side white guys and giving me the privilege of seeing the best play against the best regardless of what color their skin was.
Baseball should be sued for ending segregation in the game? Really, is that where we are now? As part of that settlement should MLB agree to bar minorities from the game again? Would you be happier if Mays, Bob Gibson, Bonds, and countless others had never been allowed to play and the leagues kept seperate?
[quote:e12d33804a]if this were true integration and not MLB imperialism, a few negro franchises should have survived with white players[/quote:e12d33804a]
There was no law against them staying in business and hiring white players. And there was nobody holding a gun to any players head and forcing them to play for MLB. Any or all of the players from the negro leagues could have chosen to continue playing for their teams and the owners of those teams could have continued to field teams. If you are paying money someone will take it.
Perhaps the problem was that while MLB was willing to integrate the negro league teams were not. But we cannot consider that because it ruins a perfectly good victim scenario.
Oil Can Boyd and others may not appreciate what Jackie did and there may be many like him who wish MLB had never integrated. But I will go on record as saying thank you Mr. Robinson. And I will go further and say thanks to Bob Gibson and Lou Brock and many others too numerous to mention for being willing to play along side white guys and giving me the privilege of seeing the best play against the best regardless of what color their skin was.
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by JohnnyBlazers » Thu May 03, 2012 7:33 am
[quote:1bcb1c4897] you left out where he started by saying that "negro league baseball should never have been broken up". totally ruined the inner city. complete collapse of community that went bankrupt and lost thousands of inner city jobs and pride. [/quote:1bcb1c4897]
the inner city was mostly ruined by the automobile and the interstate highway system, not Negro league baseball. Those that could afford to live the suburban lifestyle did. Boyd makes some decent points that come out blurry due to his in his crackhead mentality. NEL baseball was bankrolled by illegal bookmakers - how long was that enterprise destined to go on? It was not in any sense of the word an "organized" sport. Revisionist history is a funny thing - can we move along?
the inner city was mostly ruined by the automobile and the interstate highway system, not Negro league baseball. Those that could afford to live the suburban lifestyle did. Boyd makes some decent points that come out blurry due to his in his crackhead mentality. NEL baseball was bankrolled by illegal bookmakers - how long was that enterprise destined to go on? It was not in any sense of the word an "organized" sport. Revisionist history is a funny thing - can we move along?
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by scorehouse » Thu May 03, 2012 10:05 am
first i've heard about the NEL being bankrolled by bookies? they were in biz a long time for that to be true? i was doing some research and stumbled upon infinitecardset.blog and seamheads.com. check it out. great baseball trivia etc.
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by scorehouse » Thu May 03, 2012 10:08 am
could boyd just be reflecting a mindset? from the phrase "uncle tom" to "magic negro" and "he's not black enough"?
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by Salty » Thu May 03, 2012 10:09 am
This is from Negroleaguebaseball.com if anyone is interested:
Question: Why did the Negro Leagues disappear?
Answer:
After the integration of professional baseball two factors combined to bring about the collapse of the Negro Leagues--(a) the best players from the top Negro League teams were signed by Major League organizations, thus weakening the top Negro League teams, and (b) the interest of black fans was quickly drawn away from the Negro Leagues as they focused their interest on the performance of Jackie Robinson and other black pioneers in the major leagues. As fan attendance dwindled at the close of the 1940s, most Negro League teams collapsed under financial pressure.
Although the integration of professional baseball was one important step in the integration of American society, the event did have at least one negative aspect for the African-American community. By the 1940s Negro League baseball had become one of the largest and most successful black-owned business enterprises in America. The integration of baseball meant the end of baseball as a profitable industry in the black community.
Question: Why did the Negro Leagues disappear?
Answer:
After the integration of professional baseball two factors combined to bring about the collapse of the Negro Leagues--(a) the best players from the top Negro League teams were signed by Major League organizations, thus weakening the top Negro League teams, and (b) the interest of black fans was quickly drawn away from the Negro Leagues as they focused their interest on the performance of Jackie Robinson and other black pioneers in the major leagues. As fan attendance dwindled at the close of the 1940s, most Negro League teams collapsed under financial pressure.
Although the integration of professional baseball was one important step in the integration of American society, the event did have at least one negative aspect for the African-American community. By the 1940s Negro League baseball had become one of the largest and most successful black-owned business enterprises in America. The integration of baseball meant the end of baseball as a profitable industry in the black community.
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by Salty » Thu May 03, 2012 10:11 am
This one is for the supposition about white players in the NeL:
Question: Were there any white players in the Negro Leagues?
Answer:
While Jackie Robinson was in his first season in integrated baseball with the Montreal Royals (the Brooklyn Dodgers' farm club in the International League), the Cleveland Buckeyes signed the first white player ever to play in the Negro Leagues. The Buckeyes' signee was Eddie Klepp, a young, white pitcher.
Ironically, during his brief stay with the Buckeyes (he was released after the 1946 season) Klepp was victimized by the same Jim Crow laws in the South that had barred black players from playing on white teams. In some Southern cities like Birmingham the law prohibited black and white players from playing together on public athletic fields. The law was applied during the Buckeye's visit to play the Birmingham Black Barons, and Klepp was barred from the taking the field.
Question: Were there any white players in the Negro Leagues?
Answer:
While Jackie Robinson was in his first season in integrated baseball with the Montreal Royals (the Brooklyn Dodgers' farm club in the International League), the Cleveland Buckeyes signed the first white player ever to play in the Negro Leagues. The Buckeyes' signee was Eddie Klepp, a young, white pitcher.
Ironically, during his brief stay with the Buckeyes (he was released after the 1946 season) Klepp was victimized by the same Jim Crow laws in the South that had barred black players from playing on white teams. In some Southern cities like Birmingham the law prohibited black and white players from playing together on public athletic fields. The law was applied during the Buckeye's visit to play the Birmingham Black Barons, and Klepp was barred from the taking the field.
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by Valen » Thu May 03, 2012 11:27 am
[quote:9e0f23954f]the interest of black fans was quickly drawn away from the Negro Leagues as they focused their interest on the performance of Jackie Robinson and other black pioneers in the major leagues[/quote:9e0f23954f]
So the fans wanted to see the best play against the best, not just someone with same color of skin playing. You cannot blame that on MLB.
Bottom line: MLB did the right thing ending baseball segregation. Laws such as the one in Birmingham saying whites and blacks could not play on the same field were wrong. And while someone might have the right to look fondly on those days of segregation they will get little respect from me. There is nothing good about any system that denies opportunity or separates society strictly based on skin color.
The negro leagues were a necessary thing when ignorant minds kept people separated based on skin color. They were the only way black people could play and the only way black people could watch them play. Ending segregation was the right thing to do. And once that was accomplished the need for those leagues disappeared.
So the fans wanted to see the best play against the best, not just someone with same color of skin playing. You cannot blame that on MLB.
Bottom line: MLB did the right thing ending baseball segregation. Laws such as the one in Birmingham saying whites and blacks could not play on the same field were wrong. And while someone might have the right to look fondly on those days of segregation they will get little respect from me. There is nothing good about any system that denies opportunity or separates society strictly based on skin color.
The negro leagues were a necessary thing when ignorant minds kept people separated based on skin color. They were the only way black people could play and the only way black people could watch them play. Ending segregation was the right thing to do. And once that was accomplished the need for those leagues disappeared.
- Valen
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- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
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