Insuring the supply of new sheep

[Treyomo]

Great responses by all. Here's my take.

People who love baseball and its history, and also don't mind doing some analysis, will stick to this game even if they initially struggle. Those who love baseball and its history but don't want to bother with card analysis will gravitate to other SIM games like Whatifsports and Simnasium.

The other thing I've noticed - when people first come to this game, they often select the big name players they remember fondly. Those who select the famous hitters (Ruth/Gehrig/Mays/Aaron) tend to do well. Those who select famous pitchers from the last 50 years (Koufax/Drysdale/Marichal/Spahn) will struggle, because the hitters from the last 50 years are much, much better values than the pitchers from the last 50 years.

Either way, I don't think performance is a main reason that people stick or go. I won't play Whatifsports anymore even though I do well. It's a decent game - I just can't play without the cards. It's the cards - you either love 'em, or hate 'em.

[sschu]

In order for the on line version of ATG to continue TSN needs to be successful financially (at least the online SOM part of their business). New players are always great as people drop out for whatever reason. IMHO, TSN needs to promote the game more, especially to those who have played the board game. Maybe the Great Neck folks can provide some help on targeting potential customers who bought the cards 25 years ago and who fondly remember the board game.

Better instructions and rules and maybe A, AA, AA leagues would help the newby, but someone who has never played a SOM game is at a serious disadvantage. For example, many new folks who have played a few seasons still do not get the basic statistical odds of rolling a 2 vs a 7 on a card column. Maybe a newby “mentor program” would help, match a new manager with an experienced manager for a couple of seasons until they get over the steep learning curve.

It would seem TSN would be better served financially by promoting to and nurturing the existing manager base, especially those who have purchased more than 25 teams. Ideas would include “Challenge Leagues” with better prizes, better communications, better support, purchase package options, theme leagues, etc.

FWIIW, sschu

[CHRISTIANSTOUGH]

I totaly stumbled on to this whole thing accidentaly. I was looking for an easy online game for me and my Pop to play, and boing- found this deal..

This is definetly a word of mouth thing. I'm not sure promoting it in a general advertisement is smart. I think Schu's instinct of targeting certain groups is a much better idea.

The word is out there, although I'm not sure if Sporting news is associated with it. Steve Colbert made several refferences to this game on his show, although I'm not sure (and really don't want to know) what site he plays on. The point is, that I think it's a growing underground fad. I give that trend two years tops and then it's back to the die hards.

If this site was wise they'd create more 1970's leagues. Most of us were kids during that era, and now we've got money (well, more than when we were kids)so it would play big for a while. This would feed into ATG.

Another thing, is that I love this game 'cause it fills he gap between fantasy football season. Most of my FF league mates are in tears untill the season rolls around. That is a group that should be targeted.

I'm fine with being on a website with less than 100 active guys. My main gaming site has less then 20 members. So if everyone bails or the site dwindles, I'll be here. Me and Petrosian can hold hands and jump off the tail of the ship as it goes down.

"Near...far...wherever you are....

[CHRISTIANSTOUGH]

treyomo made a great point about how rookies react to this game. I did the same thing. I had Young, Matthewson, Mayer and Johnson on one of my first teams and got killed.

The other thing that killed me was I wanted a base stealing team. (hence the origin of the Banditos name). This game isn't built for it. The catchers and managers are too good. EVERYONE, knows how to stop base stealers. Plus the trade off for getting strong base runners won't put you over by enough to win consistantly. (I'm sure many of you know how to field a competitive rabbit team, but not me) I got creamed. I've seen many new players make the same mistake.

[Palanion]

My first ATG team had Mathewson, Hubbell, Joe Jackson, Seaver, Fosse, Rose, and many others that I "knew" from history. I ended the season without some I started with, too, like Tony Perez, Maury Wills, among them. I had Buck Weaver, George Selkirk, Joe Beggs and Mike Garman - I didn't know them, but learned.
I did well enough to want to keep trying. (76-86) My second team lost the finals with 91-71 record. It took me nine more teams before I saw the playoffs again -ring!
And I am in a keeper league that started as an auto/public league - with Frank Bailey, Mighty Moose, Boss, TimOrz and others in it - a pretty damn tough auto-public league. It now boasts five of the top 50 ranked owners.... ouch.
And maybe I'm foolish for thinking so, but in my Barnstormers league that just started, my division is made up of Bailey (#1), PJ (#22) and Evil Cartman (#21), and I think I have a shot to win.......
Why? Because there is still luck. Whether it's a fantastic season out of Clemente in Dunn or a 21-win season out of Carlton in Dunn (ring team). Sometimes good players underperform, sometimes they overperform. Sometimes your crappy bullpen converts 7 straight saves when they had no right doing so (a temporary love affair with Milo Candini).

p.s. to back up that earlier post about not playing the players who underperformed on early teams.... I have not played Wills, Perez, Mathewson, Hubbell, Osteen, Whitt again. Haven't played Weaver either, but not for a lack of trying....
I also just played Rose, Eastwick and Rosen again for the first time recently, have Herr on a squad again now and someday will have Joe Jackson again.

[Free Radicals]

IMO a rabbit team still needs at least 2 players that drive in runs . If you can't get them in, then what's the point of having all that speed.

[KEVINEHLE]

Hey guys. The best string of Posts I've seen in years. It's great to see some of the truly knowledgeable Strato experts chime in. I think it would be wise for new Strato guys/gals to tap into the expertise around these boards. Most everyone is willing to share.
I, myself, as a couple of you know me, am a wacky Strato player. My numbers are OK (80 Completed teams, 30 playoffs, 11 championships), but for some reason, I think everyone is like me. I think of myself as a Chemist. To me winning isn't everything. I believe I can put a winning team into these leagues a large percentage of the time with some effort and knowing how to manipulate the game. However, I'm more driven by going away from the norm and joining theme leagues or drafting bizaare teams just to see if it will work and have lots of fun with the other managers.
Whenever I see newbies in the my league, I always encourage them and try to teach them the basic strategies and tell them to watch closely of how the veterans in the league have built their teams.
I love baseball and found Strato fans to be some of the greatest people I know. It seems strato people are cut from the same cloth.

I don't necessarily believe in building different level leagues so that new poeple have a chance to win. 12 newbies in the same league may not learn anything from each other. However, I would be open to Autoleagues somehow balancing out the leagues as people sign up. Sounds like we would need some IT work to make that happen, but I think the best plan to keep new people playing is for the veterans to engage them and make it fun for them. 8)

Kev

[wmpaterson]

I have to say that I'm getting discouraged by not winning and I am cutting back - the satisfaction level is lower and the price of the teams is harder to justify.


I love the history of baseball and I've played the board game for years as a kid. But, I think the TSN game rewards obsessiveness, and I think there are some who tweak the game to their advantage. However, I just thinkfor the most part, I'm simply outclassed. I try, I get creative, I read the boards and I usually come up short. Sometimes way short. So yeah it is discouraging


I'd like to see some type of tiered system - perhaps optional - that will allow a slow-learner like me get some experience and some modicum of playoff experience.

[dwightskino211]

I think it is a good idea for new players. I am in a league (auto) with 5 top 75 managers in it. I am at 115 or so. That's too many for most newbie teams to have a winning season. I wrote a newbie guide to get some thoughts across for new players. Others have done more than that to help new players. I learned most of what I was missing from the vets here. I suggest 10-30 hrs of reading posts that give advice. Look at successful teams. Read the posts. Find the caveats and re build your teams. These are severe all star teams. They would kill most regular season world champs in a league together. I played the 2004 Red Sox against some of my successful ATG2 teams and it wasn't even close.
You have to realize this and see that pitching, defense, left righty factors and power, as well as team play, all are important There are many different ways to win, but maximizing dollars is important too. Look at the successful teams and see what they got out of their benches and how much those players cost. i.e 500K. Look at pitching staffs, lineups outfields etc. those players are telling you they are winners and who they are grouped with pricewise gives you a blue print to follow.

Good Luck!!

[CHRISTIANSTOUGH]

What's the point of all that speed? To get as close to being the 1976 A's as possible.
Why, was I supposed to win games or something?

Of course, they did have Tenace, Baylor and Bando so your point is well made.