Archive of SportingNews.com's old SOM Baseball forum

I need some help gauging interest in and refining the rules for the NO GUTS NO GLORY ATG6 1946-2009 $100 mil cap 24 team mystery card theme league. Here's what I have so far:

* ATG6, $100m cap, 24 teams, DH, waivers, 5/10/20 drop, advanced;

* Only player cards for the years 1946-2009 may be used;

* 25 round serpentine draft run on Diamond Dope with randomizer to determine draft order;

* Unique parks, meaning no duplicates. Note that the same named park can be used, but with a different year. For example, someone may choose Yankee Stadium 1956 while another manager may choose Yankee Stadium 1971. Choose from any major league ballpark (no Negro League parks may be used) for the years 1946-2009. Randomizer to determine ballpark draft order AFTER the Diamond Dope player draft;

* Randomizer for division assignments AFTER Diamond Dope player draft and ballpark draft.

[b:65f40332b0]Now here's the mystery card kicker: Most of the star players (and many of the lesser players) have more than one card. For those players with more than one card, the year of the player card to be used during the season will be randomly assigned AFTER the draft. In other words, managers will have no idea which version of the player they are getting until after the draft. For example, a manager who drafts Elston Howard could end up with the $.5mil version or the $6.73 mil version or any version in between. A manager who drafts Gaylord Perry could end up with the $.5mil version or the $8.46 mil version or any version in between. This is similar to a big league manager, who knows a player's capabilities but has no idea whether a player will perform to his potential.[/b:65f40332b0]

Other rules regarding players with more than one card:

1. Multi card players cannot be dropped, but players with just one card can be dropped. Multi card players must be kept the entire season, UNLESS a taker is found for a trade. This should prevent managers from hoarding players and then keeping only those players who are assigned good cards.

2. Once the draft occurs, all undrafted players with more than one card are OFF LIMITS for the entire season. This should prevent managers from drafting low cost, one card players and later cutting them in favor of high priced multi card free agents once the card to be used for the season is identified.

3. I haven't quite decided how to deal with the possibility of a team exceeding the cap once the card years are randomly assigned. Obviously most teams will be a mix of multi card players and single card players. I'm leaning heavily towards requiring the manager to adjust his single card players to fit under the cap. Another possibility is to use the lowest priced card of his highest priced multi card player to get under the cap. If that doesn't get the team under the cap, the manager would be required to also use the lowest priced card of his second highest priced multi card player and so on until the team is under the cap.

4. As for the random assignment of player card years, I haven't quite decided on how to accomplish that. The quickest and easiest way would be to randomize the years 1946-2009 and the first year to come up that corresponded to one of the player card years would be the year of the card assigned to the player. For example, if the first 20 random years were:

1961
1969
1959
1988
1991
2004
1974
1962
2003
1979
1996
1971
1984
1952
1970
1995
1968
2005
1956
1994

The 1961 Mantle card would be used ahead of his 1959 and 1956 cards, since 1961 was the first of his seasons in the list of random numbers. Similarly Aaron would use his 1969 card since that season was randomly generated ahead of his 1959 and 1957 seasons. Stargell would use his 1971 card since it was generated ahead of 1972. Sammy Sosa would use his 1996 card, since it arose ahead of 1998 & 1999. Paul O'Neil would use his 1996 card, since that number came up ahead of his other years of 1994 and 1989. McGwire would use his 1988 card, since that number arose before his other years of 1990, 1992, 1996, 1998 & 1999. Frank Thomas would use 1994, since that number came up ahead of his other card year of 1993. Bagwell would use 1996, since that card year came up ahead of his other card of 1994. A-Rod would use 2003, since that number came up before 2005 & 2007. Greg Maddux would use his 1995 card since that number was generated ahead of 1992, 1993 and 1994. Clemens would use his 1991 card, since that number was generated ahead of his 1986, 1997 and 2004 cards. Cone would use 1988, since that number arose before 1994 and 1997. Jenkins would use his 1974 season, since that number arose before his other cards of 1968 and 1970. Podres would use his 1959 card, since that number arose before his other seasons of 1963 and 1965.

5. A handful of players, most notably Ted Williams and Stan Musial, have cards prior to 1946. For purposes of this league, we are considering only 1946 and later, so Ted Williams is considered a single card player (since his 1941 season is before 1946), so his 1946 season would be the only one used, while Musial is considered a multi season player, as he had 3 cards (1946, 1948 and 1956) that fall within the league season range and his 1942 card falls outside the range. With the above random seasons, Musial would use his 1956 card, since that was the first year of his 3 carded seasons to be randomly generated.

6. Since no year is printed on the Negro League cards, those cards will not be used.

I think that the online Strato community is VERY BRIGHT and I NEED YOUR INPUT, as the league rules are a work in progress and I'm certain that I missed something. With your help, any gaps in the rules should be closed before the draft.

The sign up sheet is below:

1. BDWard
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.
21.
22.
23.
24.

I don't think this type of league has ever been run before. It should be simple and fun, assuming that everyone is self policing and abides by the rules. - Bernie W

i like the idea but hate 24 teams and serpentine. why don't you try it out with a 12 team league and waivers start. announce year order after waiver draft. only problem i can see is why wouldn'tyou just draft players with only one year or no bad years ,i.e., cobb, mays, aaron, collins, etc.?

[quote:ad44567efc="scorehouse"] Only problem i can see is why wouldn'tyou just draft players with only one year or no bad years ,i.e., cobb, mays, aaron, collins, etc.?[/quote:ad44567efc]

scorehouse: EXACTLY! Everyone will be competing for the same players and with 24 teams in the league and using only players from 1946-2009, those players should be spread pretty thin. Plus, with those star players with multiple cards, one can never be sure which card they would get. Brett, Allen, Doby, Klu, Nettles, Carlton, Tudor, Santana, Glavine, etc. are all good players that help a team with their best cards but may not be as desirable with their worst cards.

scorehouse: The problem with a waiver draft is that this is a no drop league for multi card players and does not include the NegLegers and pre 1946 cards. The auto draft would stick people with multi year cards they may not want and there would be a mad rush to try and pick up players with good cards in the waiver draft. A Diamond Dope draft avoids all that.

The sign up sheet is below:

1. BDWard
2. DOHowser
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.
21.
22.
23.
24.

enjoy :P

A word on randomization methodology.

If we take all the years, randomize them, and then everyone uses the same list, you will have years that get massively neglected and years that get massively overused. I think something simpler might work more easily.

For example: Generate ONE random number 1-60.
If a player has two cards, you divide that number by 30. 0.03-1 yields the card with the lower year, 1.03-2 yields the higher card year.
Three cards, divide by 20, .05-1, 1.05-2, 2.05-3
Four cards, divide by 15. .067-1, 1.067-2, 2.067-3, 3.067-4
Five cards, divide by 12, six cards, divide by 10.
(Is there anyone with six cards? Five cards? If there's no five or six, we can use 12 as the base number.

As quality cards are spread among the years, this provides a different spread, without a big lookup table covering 63 individual years.
Additionally, it gives a touch more variance.

A suggestion, I'm sure there are other ways.

I think PKB is on the right track. But, if I'm understanding his solution correctly, everyone who has a player with 2 cards would end up with the cheap version, OR everyone would end up with the expensive version. Ther would be no variation. This isn't a big problem, but I think it would be better if everyone wasn't in the same boat.

My proposal:

Generate a list of 24 random numbers between 1-60

For players with 2 cards, if 1-30 you use the cheap. If 31-60 you use expensive.

For players with 3 cards, use 1-20, 21-40, 41-60 cheap - expensive

For players with 4 cards, use 1-15, 16-30, 31-45, 46-60

For players with 5 cards, use 1-12, 13-24, 25-36, 37-48, 49-60

Then every player evaluates his draft card top to bottom starting with the first SP. The first player with more than one card uses the first randomly generated number. The next player with more than one card uses the next randomly generated number. Until he's done.

This is probably overly complicated, and it would rely heavily on the honor system, but it would make a more random mix of good/bad cards for teams with some difference between the teams on who aand what positions got lucky.

I'm sure it can be improved upon, but it's my thought.

The sign up sheet is below:

1. BDWard
2. DOHowser
3. durantjerry
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.
21.
22.
23.
24.
scorehouse
MVP


Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 1127

Report abuse | Block

No, the idea is that you use the younger or older card based on the number. So, let's use a few players with multiple cards:
Frank Thomas 93 is 6.7M, 94 is 11.4
Biggio - 93 is 3.42, 97 is 9+, 98 is 8+
Pedro Martinez - 97 is 10+, 99 is 8, 2000 is 9+

Okay, roll the 30 sided die.
Say it's 18
18/15 > 1, so The Big Hurt's owner gets 94
18/10 is 1.8, so Biggio's owner gets 97 and Pedro's owner gets 99.

Rickey says, "Rickey wants to be used in the example!"
Henderson: 82 - 5+, 83 6+, 85 7+, 90 8+
Different injury risks and balances too.
60 sided die says 36
36/15 = 3.whatever.
Rickey 85 is the one you get. Enjoy.

The down result of doing it my way is that you wind up with a league full of either earlier career guys or later career guys. But the upside, as you can see is that the best cards are not uniformly early career, mid career or late career.

Pedro becomes a very interesting choice since he's an ace or #2, but a * and no-*. Changes your rotational strategy massively.