Forbes- Smith v. Wagner MCormick v. Chance

[CHRISTIANSTOUGH]

I've decided to play most of my game in Forbes so I'm curious as to your opinions on who is the better SS/1B
I've had two posts recently that suggested Wagner over Smith and McCormick over Chance.

With regard to McCormick v. Chance, I don't think there is any comparison. Based on DiamondDope (go ahead breathe it in)

McCormicks OBP=(L/R) 387/376, his batting runs with clutch factored=11.90/10.2

Chance OBP 526/488, his batting runs with clutch fatored 20.16/16.36

Based on these numbers, I don't understand why ANYONE would prefer McCormick over Chance.

Wagner is a better arguement. his numbers OBP= 538/515 ...25.55/23.22

Smith OBP= 347/490....-0.23/11.50

but then there is the matter of Glove, Wagner is an error machine. I've got him on three teams and I swear to god he must get a free bar of gold for every error. (eventually, I'll do an analysis of how many games he cost me with his glove, but for now...).
Ozzie is the best fielding SS in the game.

Supposedly this game places a premium on SS play so it would seem that with his right side almost comparable, his superior fielding and his lower injury factor, Ozzie kicks the Dutchmen's booty. Especially in a pitchers park.

Weigh in....

[JUMA]

It's not just a matter of Player A being better than Player B...what really matters is the team as a whole. When I posted earlier today, it was my feeling that your team was ok in terms of OBP, but you lacked RBI guys. I pointed out that McCormick & F. Alou can be fine run producers in Forbes, and were FAs. As was Wagner. I didn't say, or mean to imply to you that McCormick or Alou are "better" than your incumbents there.
Think context. OBP is really important, but someone has to knock 'em home.
I don't want to dissuade you on your misgivings about Wagner; makes it easier to draft him. :wink:
Best of luck.

Randy

[CHRISTIANSTOUGH]

Well stated.
Certainly, I have a team of lead off guys and if nobody puts up the rbi's- I'm done. As I stated, I think your arguement is a good one for Wagner, but I think Chances RBI production is Better than McCormicks.

Part of my problem is that I don't understand the Straomatic formula's. My figurring was that if enough get on base, they can't help but score the guy in front of 'em.

Then I looked at that diamonddope dope. I really don't understand how they calculate the batting runs with clutch factored.
For example, Red Scheondienst has an ok OBP, but a negative clutch. Does he FREEZE if there is a man on base when he comes to bat. I don't get how his numbers can drop sooo dramatically if someone is on base.
Does he really become LESS likely to hit if someone is on base?

Then I looked at the teddy ball post and I began to wonder if maybe my instincts were correct after all. (my instincts being to line up the high OBP and keep 'm coming).

All I know is that I'm getting really confused and the main reason is this clutch factor.

[JUMA]

Understand. Part of it is the "gut" factor; after all, the game is controlled by dice rolls.
That being said, when someone like the Boss weighs in with specific instructions, I listen.

[Munich_Man]

Don't know the team, but I will make these general comments. I have NEVER used McCormick, simply because of his speed. I simply can't stomach a 9 runner on my team. I will use Money on occasion, but at least he's 10 and his production/$$ is one of the best in the game, so I can live with it, as long as I don't have anyone else under 15 and at least a Sanguillen/Schalk/Gibson at C.


As far as Ozzie vs. Wagner, there's a reason Ozzie is often at the top of my draft list. The glove is awesome, and as a leadoff hitter vs RHP, there are not many better. That said, Wagner is an offensive machine and will hit in any park. The 1 range is a plus, of course, but those errors... I normally do not pay attention to injuries, so that is not a deciding factor for me, but the fact that Ozzie will not go down for any extended amount of time is a definite plus.

Just my €0.02 :D

(_)ß

[Play By The Rules]

Chance is one of the best bargains in the game, hands down. Lead him off. In any park. Make sure you have a good backup plan, he gets hurt a lot. Leslie is the best bargain if you want a two way player, sometimes I go the whole way up to Terry who also gets hurt, otherwise, I try to do a backup platoon with Burns vs. LHP and Joe Collins or Buckner.

McCormick is a decent value but only in a neutral to hitters' park. I've had bad luck with him lately. The nice thing about him is that he can't get hurt, so you don't have to carry a backup.

Smith is awful vs. LHP. I don't agree with Munich Man about him being a first round pick. But, you can't argue with his record, the guy knows his small ball inside and out.

Wagner is a great player but will probably be injured for a significant period and for me at least, for the most important games. If you go for Honus make sure you spend the extra .25m and get Bancroft, he is the best value at backup SS (you'll use him a lot.)

Good luck.