good old Jimmy Palmer

[wesleyeugeneclark]

Hunter always seems to give up home runs in bunches when I use him. Steered clear of Palmer as his reputation has preceded him in this game.

[Larryrickenbacker]

Howdy,

Junk baller extrordinaire Mike Cuellar looks really attractive-on paper. But I've never had any luck with him! (Thread-jack alert). Honestly, I'd feel better with Jim Palmer.

[bark123]

[quote:2240258af1="hallerose"]You need to understand context. He pitched in a very favorable pitchers park throughout his career, he had teams like the Indians and Brewers in his division to pitch against all the time, and most importantly he had the best defense in baseball behind him (Belanger 1ss, Brooks 1 3b, Blair 1 cf, Grich 1 2b, etc.), all of which makes his strat card underperform its numbers.[/quote:2240258af1]

How does pitching against the indians and brewers make his strat card under perform? Stats are stats. Stratomatic doesn't consider that sort of "context."

[hallerose]

Sure it does. 50% of the rolls are off the hitters cards. If you get to pitch in real life to a lot of Duane Kuipers and Pedro Garcias, then there will be more hits and home runs on your card to get to your stats. A pitchers card from 1968 will look a lot different than a pitchers card with identical "raw" stats from 1999 -- need to understand "context."

[bark123]

That makes no sense whatsoever.

So, you're saying that Stratomatic takes a look at Palmer's 1972 raw numbers and says "yeah, but he pitched against weak-hitting teams, so let's throw in some doubles and HRs on his card." If that was the case, and you replayed the 1972 season, Palmer WOULD NOT PERFORM in stratomatic as he did in real life. Which defeats Stratomatic's whole purpose.

You're right, 50 per cent of results are taken from hitting cards. So, if you take a 72 Palmer, for example, and pitch him against a schedule of better hitters than he actually pitched against in real lfe, his stats in a stratomatic replay wouldn't be as impressive. There's no need for Stratomatic to tinker with his card, adjusting it for "context."

By your reasoning, stratomatic would look at the weak-hitting 72 Indians and say "yeah, but they hit against the tough Oriole pitching staff, so let's give their hitters a few extra doubles on their cards."

There's context...defence and ball park...but that's it. The numbers will take care of themselves, depending on what situation you put the players in.

[pkwmati]

I did a search the Strat Fan Forum where season replays are common. There is not alot of 1972 out there but I did find this thread that might be of some interest:

[url]http://www.stratfanforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59831&highlight=1972[/url]

Its from 2009 so I don't imagine final season results are going to be posted, but about a third of the way into the season, Palmer was fifth in the league in ERA, under 2.00.

I imagine that replaying 1972 you'd get Palmer stats very close. Consider:

- .318 led the league in hitting. Only 6 AL players were at or above .300.
- 37 HRs led the league. Only 2 players had over 30. Only 6 had as many as 25.
- 33 doubles led the league. 9 triples led the league
- An OPS of .817 was good enough for 10th in the league.

As great a season as Palmer had in 1972, his 2.07 ERA and 1.05 WHIP were only good enough for 4th in both categories.

Also think of it this way: What is more impressive, an ERA of 3.00 in 1972 or a ERA of 3.00 in 1999? If Strat-O-Matic's goal is to have stock replays in which the cards play to their statistics, the card for a pitcher with a 3.00 ERA in 1972 is going to look significantly different from a pitcher with a 3.00 ERA in 1999.

[YountFan]

[quote:b1a9a9d4bb="PM770"]

Also think of it this way: What is more impressive, an ERA of 3.00 in 1972 or a ERA of 3.00 in 1999? If Strat-O-Matic's goal is to have stock replays in which the cards play to their statistics, the card for a pitcher with a 3.00 ERA in 1972 is going to look significantly different from a pitcher with a 3.00 ERA in 1999.[/quote:b1a9a9d4bb]

BINGO!

[ROBERTLATORRE]

We all know of a couple card/stats errors in TSN (Bowa for example), does anyone have the seasons listed in their SOM collection to check against (CDROM or cards)?

He's never pitched well for me any time I have had him.

[pyramid1]

I ended up dropping Palmer and found out at the end of the season that he was on his 1973 card. Oddly enough I struggled to find a worthy replacement but did manage to pick up Bench who was dropped with the extra cash and went on to win the WorldSeries.