Question about ethics...

[FletchGriswold]

Wow, didn't think this would cause so much hype - I didn't realize this guy was taunting other owners, dangling his players and holding them hostage for an impossible trade. Anyways, I received a trade offer initially that was invalid, and I sent a counter offer. We're both using Royals Stadium as home field, so it was relatively easy to evaluate the numbers (other than facing different pitchers within the division). I got a very average McGee card (low OBP), a great Wilson & Cooper Card (based on numbers only), Clemens' worst card and HIGH salary, and a poor performing throw in, Heaton.

I traded Sixto's best year and Mattingly's '85 card (which I noticed he dropped already!!) All of Freddy Lynn's cards are servicable and Rhoden was having equal, if not better, results than Clemens, for a lot less cash. Cerutti was a virgin free agent, who could be using his good card.

Anyways, most of you know me, and I would never partake in a lobsided deal to sway things. I wouldn't be that stupid to have the whole community blast me. I think I've spent too much money on this stupid obsession to become an outcast....I really don't think this was an out of line trade - whoever picks up Mattingly off the waiver wire is the real winner.

I obviously had no clue that this guy was making this trade out of spite - unless trades or messages are being sent to everyone, I had no way of knowing his intentions. But, live & learn. :?

Thanks to NYC, Jab, Steal, & YF for defending me before I had a chance to see this.

[bigmahon]

Something very similar happened to me a couple of months back. I got a truly lopsided trade offer (in my favor) from another manager, which came with the heading "want to win your division?". This other manager said that he had been in trade talks with another manager in my division, and that these talks had broken down. Feeling slighted by the other manager, he sent the bogus offer to me. I rejected it.

Wonder if this is the same guy doing this?

[FletchGriswold]

I too, have seen "bogus offers" which I obviously ignore. But, although his intentions may have been to tick off a guy who he'd been having trouble making a deal with, this trade was value for value.

[Jablowmi]

No problem, Fletch. Your rep precedes you. Hope to see you in the finals (with Mattingly!).

[seanreflex]

Given the players involved in this trade, I too see that Fletch gave up substantial value. Outstanding Rhoden card, Mattingly really has no bad cards, Lezcano is crushing the ball, and Freddy Lynn seems to be quite happy at his new team --

I wouldn't call this a "one-sided" trade --- I've seen trades where you give up a Mattingly (or a Clemens) that are playing well (or very poorly) for one team, absolutely do a complete turnabout, for good or bad, with their new owner.

I once traded Reggie Jackson in his best year, for an Oglivie that was underperforming, and a starting pitcher -- I think it was Bryn Smith, who was having a bad year, that I received, for Clancy. Oglivie went on to hit over 50 HR for me, Smith my winningest pitcher, and I made the playoffs (and lost to yountfan in the semis).

Taunting and sending disparaging notes back and forth in the league mail lacks sportsmanship. However, this trade doesn't appear all that one sided.

We need to be careful how we go about attacking someone on this board -- Moodinator, you yourself indicated that your actions might have been immature.

Fletch is a wily veteran, he would have done what is right in the name of sportsmanship, and quite frankly, I think he may have overpaid for what he got. A mediocre Clemens is far worse to have at $9 mill than a mediocre Rhoden at $5 mill. (don't get me wrong, Fletch, I'm not criticizing your deal, just making a point that obviously the deal was fair in your mind or you wouldn't have made it :lol: )

Chalk this one up to experience, and let it go, Moodinator. If you want a reallly fun and challenging opportunity, keep an eye on the board and join one of the theme leagues we have with guys like Fletch, NYC, Sykes, BJS, YountFan, Mav, Rooks, Jablowmi, Penn, BC, DJTrickster, Sogcomando, and so many others (I apologize to those I overlooked -- there are so many good guys out there) -- join one of those leagues, and learn what true sportsmanship, and true HUMILITY is. We'd love to have you.

Thanks guys,

Sean

[IM Bacchus]

I have always felt that when participating in an on-line gaming community like this one, it is each players obligation to maintain an elevated level of courtesy and ethical behavior. For the most part we are interacting with a lot of total strangers, kind of like playing poker in a 19th century Western saloon. Most guys are totally cool, but there are a few hot heads and morons out there as well. Problem is, until a guy develops a reputation based upon teams played and participation on the board, it is pretty difficult to sort out one from the other. It is therefore best to try and be on ones best behavior. Otherwise, you are just tempting fate that one day you won't catch a little hot lead from under the table...aka a bogus trade like the one you just experienced.
IMB

[Outta Leftfield]

I agree with Fletch, sean and others that the trade seems to represent value for value. I'm actually not sure, if I were Fletch, that I would have accepted that trade--it would depend on what I needed for my team.

[quote:08cafe4e58="seanreflex"]
Taunting and sending disparaging notes back and forth in the league mail lacks sportsmanship. [/quote:08cafe4e58]

I think, as sean has stated it, this is the real issue. For someone to claim he dumped players to help someone else win calls the integrity of the game into question--even if the trade itself was a reasonable one. And the 80's game in particular, where the real value of a card may vary significantly from face value on the basis of the year, is particularly at risk for this kind of behavior. On that basis I would send a copy of the offending message to the board moderator.

I should add that I've been in ten leagues now--eight of them completed--and I've never yet seen a trade that looked suspicious to me. So I think the standards the community maintains are remarkably high.

[YountFan]

[quote:46326b586c] kind of like playing poker in a 19th century Western saloon. Most guys are totally cool, but there are a few hot heads[/quote:46326b586c]

I din't realize you were that old IMB. You should be playing ATGII with the 1903 Pilgrams

[Jablowmi]

I think the trade was a little lopsided, but I think everyone's clear concern is with the last place team's intentions. On moodinator123's behalf (and mine for that matter), the issue was raised AFTER receiving the email from the other team.

[moodinator123]

here is the other guy's e-mail...




View Message
To: | General Lee's Flankers |
From: bush blitzkrieg

Subject: Re: Re: Re: TRADE OFFER: No subject
Date: Friday 10/21/2005 09:32 PM


i'm proud of you. great idea, you tried to steal cooper, then made a
smart ass trade offer instead of a counter. serves you right. live with it,
pal.



As you saw from my post, I said I believe Fletch knew NOTHING of this guy's intentions, so I do not feel I disparaged him at all. I still maintain it is a lopsided trade as this loser already dropped what looks like Mattingly's worst card. Not sure if the Clemens card is a bad one or not...he whipped my butt the very game after he was traded.

I just feel everyone should be wary of this guy. If anyone looks at my team they can see that I have the means to basically give the championship to any of 2-3 other teams. I have Trammell's '87 and one of Tartabull's .900+ OPS cards and a Blyleven who is probably '85 and is 14-6 for me right now. But I was trying to play fair. I am going to do my best to get into the play-offs...if not oh darn.