A market based variable pricing structure (as in other sports fantasy games) might fix the pricing issues for the 70's and '80's (and for that matter ATG as well).
Players that get used in most every season would have their salaries slowly bumped up, while the Amos Otis' of the world would see their price fall until they became cheap enough to be worth picking.
Over time a relative price equilibrium for each player should be reached.
A couple of benefits:
1. All players would come into play, not just the old stand-bys.
2. Player usage would determine their price i.e. not an arbitrary price that, as we have experienced, can be way off.
3. Having the prices vary over time (not within a particular season) would make filling out draft cards more interesting, as one would have to be continually re-evaluating all players.
ALL 70'S PLAYERS PLEASE READ & RESPOND!
by djtrickster » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:13 am
I wasn't being sarcastic. The light bulb finally popped in my head after reading what YF said: :idea: if people constantly trade the cards it would make it impossible to identify seasons. :idea:
Now on to one more little thought about the 80's:
Is there a reason Busch and Dodger Stadiums have to have exactly the same ballpark effects? It feels like we get one less ballpark to choose from to me.
Here's an idea that could be applied to any strat game - I remember playing in a tournament about ohhhh twenty years ago where you could design your own ballpark. It would probably be fun for private leagues: 0/0/0/0, 20/20/20/20, 0/20/20/0, 20/0/0/20 or anything in between.
Now on to one more little thought about the 80's:
Is there a reason Busch and Dodger Stadiums have to have exactly the same ballpark effects? It feels like we get one less ballpark to choose from to me.
Here's an idea that could be applied to any strat game - I remember playing in a tournament about ohhhh twenty years ago where you could design your own ballpark. It would probably be fun for private leagues: 0/0/0/0, 20/20/20/20, 0/20/20/0, 20/0/0/20 or anything in between.
- djtrickster
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
The solution is a Draft Czar
by YountFan » Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:43 am
[url=www.wowway.com/~jnkloster/DraftCzar.mp3]Draft Czar (ode to Sean)[/url] <--Right-Click..SaveAs..seems to work best
[b:18c36d0318]Draft Czar [i:18c36d0318](ode to Sean)[/i:18c36d0318][/b:18c36d0318]
We're 13 years into the Double Decade
You'd think by now we'd know how the draft works
But some dumb Marine f'uped his draft card
Now BC has anointed a Draft Czar
Draft Czar in a big black limousine
Big cigar...Hollywood queens
He don't know nothing about Strat-O-Matic
But that don't matter 'cause he's fantastic
He went to Harvard and he's really really smart
He's smart enough to be our Draft Czar
We all submit our cards to the Draft Czar
He determines if they're nice and fair
If he thinks you have too good of a draft card
He has the rights to redistribute your stars
Draft Czar in a big black limousine
Big cigar..Hollywood queens
He don't know nothing about Strat-O-Matic
But that don't matter 'cause he's fantastic
He went to Harvard and he's really really smart
He's smart enough to be our Draft Czar
I don't think we need a Draft Czar at all.
What we need is personal responsibility...
But in these times we must take drastic action.
And that means... we all gotta suffer 'cause of some dumb-*** Marine.
Draft Czar you're setting the world right
There is no star that can shine as bright as you tonight
You may not know nothing about Strat-O-Matic
But that don't matter because you're so fantastic
We can trust you because you're one smart guy
You are my Draft Czar
[i:18c36d0318](C) 2009 Jeff Kloster[/i:18c36d0318]
[b:18c36d0318]Draft Czar [i:18c36d0318](ode to Sean)[/i:18c36d0318][/b:18c36d0318]
We're 13 years into the Double Decade
You'd think by now we'd know how the draft works
But some dumb Marine f'uped his draft card
Now BC has anointed a Draft Czar
Draft Czar in a big black limousine
Big cigar...Hollywood queens
He don't know nothing about Strat-O-Matic
But that don't matter 'cause he's fantastic
He went to Harvard and he's really really smart
He's smart enough to be our Draft Czar
We all submit our cards to the Draft Czar
He determines if they're nice and fair
If he thinks you have too good of a draft card
He has the rights to redistribute your stars
Draft Czar in a big black limousine
Big cigar..Hollywood queens
He don't know nothing about Strat-O-Matic
But that don't matter 'cause he's fantastic
He went to Harvard and he's really really smart
He's smart enough to be our Draft Czar
I don't think we need a Draft Czar at all.
What we need is personal responsibility...
But in these times we must take drastic action.
And that means... we all gotta suffer 'cause of some dumb-*** Marine.
Draft Czar you're setting the world right
There is no star that can shine as bright as you tonight
You may not know nothing about Strat-O-Matic
But that don't matter because you're so fantastic
We can trust you because you're one smart guy
You are my Draft Czar
[i:18c36d0318](C) 2009 Jeff Kloster[/i:18c36d0318]
- YountFan
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
Great thread!!
by TSN_3143 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:45 pm
I have greatly enjoyed reading through this thread. Excellent points made about the mystery card games. Many thanks to voovits for the thread bump, for I do not believe I would have happened upon it were it not for the nudge.
As a long-time player of Fantasim I thought I could clarify how Fantasim employs the mystery card differently than the other mystery card games. I'd like to say before I go on, that I respect all of the differing points of view presented here. There has been a lot of solid validation expressed for individuals' mystery card game desires.
Fantasim has 5 years on each player's card like the 70s & 80s. Where Fantasim is unique is the mystery card gets shuffled each time the player is traded. Okay, everyone who has read this thread knows what I've said so far. What I do not think has been made clear is when traded, a player may get [i:86937df2b0]any[/i:86937df2b0] of the five years on their card. A previously used yr is not discarded from possibility. This happens w/ every trade. Any of five years. Many is the time that players are repeatedly traded that result in no 'career' yr. So there is no 'whittling down' of possible yrs, resulting in increased chance of a favored yr showing. The chance of yr w/ each trade is 20%, 1 in 5, it never varies. Now some of you might respond to this point by quoting probability statistics & I will grant you they have somewhat of a place pertaining to my point.
My second point is once a player has been on a team he has his card yr for that team. It does not change for that team no matter how they reassign him(trade or dropping) & whether they obtain him again. No matter how many times a team reacquires a player his card yr stays the same.
Like the 70s & 80s game, when a player is dropped he stays on his card yr he was on for that team, no matter how many times he is picked up and/or dropped. There is one important exception to this in Fantasim; if the player is picked up/reacquired by a team that had him previously on a different trade-obtained card yr, the player will always revert to the card yr they had when they were on that team before. Consequently, if then dropped by that team, they would then stay on that card yr until traded again or reacquired by a previous team that has a different card yr for them.
Strategically this results in Fantasim being a wild trading atmosphere often(though not always). There is no question there are far more come from behind surges to the top than in any of the other SOM games, mystery card based or otherwise. W/ very rare exceptions, there are far more total trades in a Fanta lge than any other SOM game.
There is also no question that the trade reshuffle results in a more level playing field for all 12 teams. It is easier to overcome a poor draft, a poor waiver draft, a poor beginning, a poor first half, in Fanta. Excuse me if I belabored the point, but I thought it worth spelling out.
Certainly there are SOM mgrs who do not care for 5X5, roto scoring. I respect their personal opinion on the matter. Another often quoted misapplied saying I do disagree w/(here, a paraphrased quote); "I don't like roto lges, 'cause I like the head-to-head action...". To this statement I would only say there is as much H2H action in Fanta as any other SOM game. Just like other Strato games, how well your team ends up doing is influenced heavily by how you fared H2H. Also like other Strato games, I would submit is at least as important, is your team's results w/in your division.
To me, the two chief differences between Fanta & the other mystery card games(other than the fore-mentioned card yr reshuffle on trade) is ballpark effect & the greater managerial controls available. For years I have thought that a mystery card game that combined the trade reshuffle w/ BP effect & greater player control would be the most exciting game possible.
That is, of course, my opinion. One, that likely is not shared by several who have responded to this very worthy thread. My individual opinion is, however, shared by a good number of regular SOM mgrs. Indeed, several of the responders in this thread so far have played Fantasim, some often. For those of you that have not tried it, I recommend the game, if for no other reason than to expose you to the possibilities presented when a player card yr is reshuffled.
I have read some passionate rationale in this thread, for individual mgr's desires for game improvement to the 70s & 80s games. I did not feel I could pass by this well-meaning discussion w/out clarifying other SOM gamers impressions of what a card yr reshuffle 'does' to the game. That I am a Fantasim game adherent there can be no question of. I also will say I am a fan of every SOM game offered, admittedly some more than others.
If TSN were to upgrade the game engines for the 70s & 80s games w/ all the latest bells & whistles to include Bullpen Logic v2, I believe it would be a solid step forward. The addition of some of the 70s/80s players suggested here is another step forward, as is selective price adjustments for players. In sum, those items would be a fine retooling of the two decades games. But what I believe would be the [i:86937df2b0]piece de resistance[/i:86937df2b0] would be to offer as a lge option the reshuffling of player card yrs by trade, just as done presently in Fantasim. The option could be presented when creating the lge, just like whether or not to have a DH. I do believe if this were offered as an option, over time, it would prove to be the more popular choice. It would take some time, to be sure, but the excitement of card yr reshuffles cannot be denied.
I, for one, am bored by 3-5 teams dominating a lge, reducing the importance of playing huge portions of the regular season to playoff seed jockeying. What if no team ever need be out of the championship running, but could climb back into the mix w/ a few well-turned trades. Don't get me wrong, there are many Fantasim seasons where the haves & have-nots separate, but not because of trying. Only because of stopping trying.
I hope I helped in some way w/ understanding the role card yr reshuffling plays in the mystery card game. While I understand & accept it is not for everyone, there are certainly many who do embrace it.
I look forward to seeing how far TSN goes w/ the mystery card game re-tooling.
All the best - Turbo
As a long-time player of Fantasim I thought I could clarify how Fantasim employs the mystery card differently than the other mystery card games. I'd like to say before I go on, that I respect all of the differing points of view presented here. There has been a lot of solid validation expressed for individuals' mystery card game desires.
Fantasim has 5 years on each player's card like the 70s & 80s. Where Fantasim is unique is the mystery card gets shuffled each time the player is traded. Okay, everyone who has read this thread knows what I've said so far. What I do not think has been made clear is when traded, a player may get [i:86937df2b0]any[/i:86937df2b0] of the five years on their card. A previously used yr is not discarded from possibility. This happens w/ every trade. Any of five years. Many is the time that players are repeatedly traded that result in no 'career' yr. So there is no 'whittling down' of possible yrs, resulting in increased chance of a favored yr showing. The chance of yr w/ each trade is 20%, 1 in 5, it never varies. Now some of you might respond to this point by quoting probability statistics & I will grant you they have somewhat of a place pertaining to my point.
My second point is once a player has been on a team he has his card yr for that team. It does not change for that team no matter how they reassign him(trade or dropping) & whether they obtain him again. No matter how many times a team reacquires a player his card yr stays the same.
Like the 70s & 80s game, when a player is dropped he stays on his card yr he was on for that team, no matter how many times he is picked up and/or dropped. There is one important exception to this in Fantasim; if the player is picked up/reacquired by a team that had him previously on a different trade-obtained card yr, the player will always revert to the card yr they had when they were on that team before. Consequently, if then dropped by that team, they would then stay on that card yr until traded again or reacquired by a previous team that has a different card yr for them.
Strategically this results in Fantasim being a wild trading atmosphere often(though not always). There is no question there are far more come from behind surges to the top than in any of the other SOM games, mystery card based or otherwise. W/ very rare exceptions, there are far more total trades in a Fanta lge than any other SOM game.
There is also no question that the trade reshuffle results in a more level playing field for all 12 teams. It is easier to overcome a poor draft, a poor waiver draft, a poor beginning, a poor first half, in Fanta. Excuse me if I belabored the point, but I thought it worth spelling out.
Certainly there are SOM mgrs who do not care for 5X5, roto scoring. I respect their personal opinion on the matter. Another often quoted misapplied saying I do disagree w/(here, a paraphrased quote); "I don't like roto lges, 'cause I like the head-to-head action...". To this statement I would only say there is as much H2H action in Fanta as any other SOM game. Just like other Strato games, how well your team ends up doing is influenced heavily by how you fared H2H. Also like other Strato games, I would submit is at least as important, is your team's results w/in your division.
To me, the two chief differences between Fanta & the other mystery card games(other than the fore-mentioned card yr reshuffle on trade) is ballpark effect & the greater managerial controls available. For years I have thought that a mystery card game that combined the trade reshuffle w/ BP effect & greater player control would be the most exciting game possible.
That is, of course, my opinion. One, that likely is not shared by several who have responded to this very worthy thread. My individual opinion is, however, shared by a good number of regular SOM mgrs. Indeed, several of the responders in this thread so far have played Fantasim, some often. For those of you that have not tried it, I recommend the game, if for no other reason than to expose you to the possibilities presented when a player card yr is reshuffled.
I have read some passionate rationale in this thread, for individual mgr's desires for game improvement to the 70s & 80s games. I did not feel I could pass by this well-meaning discussion w/out clarifying other SOM gamers impressions of what a card yr reshuffle 'does' to the game. That I am a Fantasim game adherent there can be no question of. I also will say I am a fan of every SOM game offered, admittedly some more than others.
If TSN were to upgrade the game engines for the 70s & 80s games w/ all the latest bells & whistles to include Bullpen Logic v2, I believe it would be a solid step forward. The addition of some of the 70s/80s players suggested here is another step forward, as is selective price adjustments for players. In sum, those items would be a fine retooling of the two decades games. But what I believe would be the [i:86937df2b0]piece de resistance[/i:86937df2b0] would be to offer as a lge option the reshuffling of player card yrs by trade, just as done presently in Fantasim. The option could be presented when creating the lge, just like whether or not to have a DH. I do believe if this were offered as an option, over time, it would prove to be the more popular choice. It would take some time, to be sure, but the excitement of card yr reshuffles cannot be denied.
I, for one, am bored by 3-5 teams dominating a lge, reducing the importance of playing huge portions of the regular season to playoff seed jockeying. What if no team ever need be out of the championship running, but could climb back into the mix w/ a few well-turned trades. Don't get me wrong, there are many Fantasim seasons where the haves & have-nots separate, but not because of trying. Only because of stopping trying.
I hope I helped in some way w/ understanding the role card yr reshuffling plays in the mystery card game. While I understand & accept it is not for everyone, there are certainly many who do embrace it.
I look forward to seeing how far TSN goes w/ the mystery card game re-tooling.
All the best - Turbo
- TSN_3143
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
by LMBombers » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:36 pm
Sounds like Turbo may be whiping up some more interest in the Fantasim game. :lol: It is worth a try if you haven't done so before. I still prefer the 70's and 80's mystery card games as they are now however.
- LMBombers
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
by JONCHUCKERY » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:33 am
The problem with reshuffling cards in the 70's/80's vs Fantasim is that in Fantasim you basically play off of 5 of the best years for those players. Here in the 70's/80's you have a season or two that is a bad card which is kinda the whole idea of mystery cards...If you reshuffle in the 70's for example you could have a huge discrepancy btwn say Morgan's clunker .237BA card and then reshuffling to get his MVP 1000+OPS...Sorry but to me that isn't very realistic and lends more to luck than building and reconfiguring a team.
Part of the lure of the 70's I enjoy most is the fact that like in real life you don't know from season to season how a player will perform. I for one like and would like to see even more of the best vs worst gap in selecting cards of players. I like Moragn having a .237BA card to go with 75 and 76 as options. Games like Fantasim pull over an entire career where here you pull from a specific decade and those cards should best represent who a player was over that period.
Part of the lure of the 70's I enjoy most is the fact that like in real life you don't know from season to season how a player will perform. I for one like and would like to see even more of the best vs worst gap in selecting cards of players. I like Moragn having a .237BA card to go with 75 and 76 as options. Games like Fantasim pull over an entire career where here you pull from a specific decade and those cards should best represent who a player was over that period.
- JONCHUCKERY
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
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