Closer/Relief Endurance, Settings, Etc., Help!

[ths92110]

Can somebody (BERNIE?????) please post a comprehensive guide on "How to Manage Your Bullpen?" In other words, how does the game engine make the decisions that it does? In particular, it would be nice to know:

1. What, exactly, does "Maximize" mean on the closer setting? The named closer will only pitch in save situations? And, if this is true (which seems counterintuitive), what does the "Normal" setting mean? That the closer will be used when the game is tied? Or when your one or two runs behind? Or does it mean that a different guy will be brought in to close every now and then?

2. What is the criteria for bringing in a named closer? Is there any way to raise or lower this threshold, so that the closer is either (a) brought in at the first sign of trouble, or (b) only brought in when there is a real jam?

3. If you do not name a closer, what criteria does the game engine use to select the closer?

4. How is a relief pitcher's endurance calculated? In other words, can I use (or attempt to use) my ace reliever every night for 3 innings in a row?

5. What settings should I use to get my ace reliever to pitch 3 innings a night every night in a row (if that's possible)? Do I make him the set-up man and the closer against both right and left handers? Or, if I make him the closer, will the game engine refuse to use him as the set-up man? Conversley, if I leave the closer role open (unnamed), will the game engine use him as both the set-up man and the closer? Or will it try to bring in another reliever to close the game?

6. What, exactly, does "avoid" right/left handers mean? When, and under what circumstances, will a pitcher with this option checked be activated, or removed from the game?

I've tried searching the forums and the answers to these questions seem all over the place. Any experienced help would be greatly appreciated.

Tom

[bjs73]

[quote:6b2d2e3e5b]Can somebody (BERNIE?????) please post a comprehensive guide on "How to Manage Your Bullpen?"[/quote:6b2d2e3e5b]

Pretty sure that Bernie doesn't lurk here on this board.

[quote:6b2d2e3e5b]1. What, exactly, does "Maximize" mean on the closer setting?[/quote:6b2d2e3e5b]

The game engine will attempt to stay true to your assigned roles that you defined in your manger's strategy section.

The regular setting just loosens up the pecking order and HAL will take liberties on who he'll bring in to setup or close a game based on fatigue carried over from previous games and balance. Therefore, if you have a closer setting set for Eckersley against both LH and RH batters, but you have a regular setting, HAL make take the liberty to bring in a LHP to face a LH hitter in the ninth and pull Eck. (Allegedly, that is...)

[quote:6b2d2e3e5b]2. What is the criteria for bringing in a named closer?[/quote:6b2d2e3e5b]

It's all based off of your manager settings. HAL likes the 2 inning save in this game - so closers are reserved for the 8th inning. You can try to steer his decision making for 1 inning saves by using the "do not use before..." checkboxes on the individual pitching cards.

[quote:6b2d2e3e5b]3. If you do not name a closer, what criteria does the game engine use to select the closer?[/quote:6b2d2e3e5b]

Voodoo. (Doodoo?)

There are many, many opinions on this subject. If you search long enough (Keyword: Bullpen) in the 80's forujms, you will find the past discussions. Many people believe that if HAL is allowed to make all the bullpen decisions, he will LEAD you to your best reliever by his usage.

I personally believe that this logic is somewhat flawed but I don't have any concrete proof to debunk it. However, from observing the CD ROM engine and HAL for many years, I have the opinion that HAL places far too much weight for his decsion making based on the "balance" rating on each card.

Example: Rance Mullinks is mostly a 4R balance rating or worse. Ken Dayley is mostly a 2R or 3R LHP. Bruce Sutter is mostly an L balance RHP.

If Mullinks is up to bat late in the game with runners on which relief pitcher would you bring in to face Mullinks? I personally would go with Dayley. It takes the bat out of Mulliniks hands because of his poor balance vs. LHP and if a RH batter is brought in to pinch hit, I could still stick with Dayley because of his favorable balance vs. RH batters.

What would HAL do? More than likely he'd opt for an even balance or a 1L or 2L or 3L pitcher despite what arm he threw with.

I see HAL do this show balance favoritism with hitters in pinch hit roles too.

I personally try to use as many restrictions to HAL's retarded decision making process to try and limit what I will and will not allow him to do.

I make extensive use of "avoid lefties/righties," "quick hook," "1-2 innings max," "do not use before...," etc.

Doesn't always work the way I want it to but they're the only tools we have.

[quote:6b2d2e3e5b]5. What settings should I use to get my ace reliever to pitch 3 innings a night every night in a row (if that's possible)? [/quote:6b2d2e3e5b]

Define him as a setup guy (both ways) and not a closer. If you want him to appear often, then it is all dependent on how you define all of the other pitching roles on your staff.

Give your SP's a ceiling for innings..(6 innings or 7 innings max) Make the relievers you don't want to appear in the setup role as "do not appear before the 8th inning." And set your global relief usage to no less than "normal" or even aggressive.

I find those settings work the best for what you want to do.

[quote:6b2d2e3e5b]6. What, exactly, does "avoid" right/left handers mean?[/quote:6b2d2e3e5b]

I believe the "avoid" option works best for when HAL will bring a reliever in the game. If you have "avoid lefties" checked for Eicchorn then HAL would avoid bringing him in to face Reggie Jackson and reserve him for Danny Tartabull.

I also believe that the "avoid" checkbox helps the game engine with issuing critical Intentional Walks as long as you do not have a "conservative" setting for Intentional Walks set globally and on the pitching cards.

If you bring in W. Hernandez to face Boggs with one out, then get him to ground out, then have to face Richie Zisk in a clutch situation with Ken Phelps on deck, the "avoid" feature will allow Willie to Intentionally Pass Zisk to get to Phelps.

I hope that all makes sense.

Have fun!

P.S. Tell Bernie (when you see him) to have the accounting department issue my TSN consulting check to "bjs73 - 80's game engine guru witch doctor specialist."

[YountFan]

Dream on

[Sykes25]

[quote:1033c6f4a2="ths92110"]Can somebody (BERNIE?????) please post a comprehensive guide on "How to Manage Your Bullpen?" In other words, how does the game engine make the decisions that it does? In particular, it would be nice to know:

1. What, exactly, does "Maximize" mean on the closer setting? The named closer will only pitch in save situations? And, if this is true (which seems counterintuitive), what does the "Normal" setting mean? That the closer will be used when the game is tied? Or when your one or two runs behind? Or does it mean that a different guy will be brought in to close every now and then?

2. What is the criteria for bringing in a named closer? Is there any way to raise or lower this threshold, so that the closer is either (a) brought in at the first sign of trouble, or (b) only brought in when there is a real jam?

3. If you do not name a closer, what criteria does the game engine use to select the closer?

4. How is a relief pitcher's endurance calculated? In other words, can I use (or attempt to use) my ace reliever every night for 3 innings in a row?

5. What settings should I use to get my ace reliever to pitch 3 innings a night every night in a row (if that's possible)? Do I make him the set-up man and the closer against both right and left handers? Or, if I make him the closer, will the game engine refuse to use him as the set-up man? Conversley, if I leave the closer role open (unnamed), will the game engine use him as both the set-up man and the closer? Or will it try to bring in another reliever to close the game?

6. What, exactly, does "avoid" right/left handers mean? When, and under what circumstances, will a pitcher with this option checked be activated, or removed from the game?

I've tried searching the forums and the answers to these questions seem all over the place. Any experienced help would be greatly appreciated.

Tom[/quote:1033c6f4a2]

Let me do the best I can with my limited time to reply.

1- Maximize will prevent your closer from pitching EXCEPT for save chances. This ensures that he will not be fatigued because he came in two days in a row when down by 2 in the 8th and you need a save for tonight.

2- Best way to do this in the 80's game is to limit all of your RP with the "do not bring in before X inning" setting. I prevent my 80's closers from coming in before the 9th. I usually keep my setup man to not come in before the 8th, and then the rest for 6th and 7th. Never use the MOP UP setting, as there is a game flaw which makes that guy pitch way more than intended.

3- Call me crazy BUT, based on what I have seen in non 80's games, HAL will use the guy with the most SAVES on their card as teh primary closer. With this in mind, it can help to determine years of 80's RP to leave it blank and see who HAL uses. This may lead to a guestimate on a reveal. (Sykes secret revealed :shock: )

4- Endurance is a structure of the SOM engine. Any RP used on a third consecutive night automatically enters the game as fatigued, regardless of role or innings pitched. They need 1 night off to reset. Theorhetically, Al Holland could pitch 4 innings of relief 2 nights in a row and not get tired. If he pitches 1/3 of an inning 3 nights in a row, he comes in fatigued automatically on night 3.

5- Use him as setup against both, closer against both, closer setting to NORMAL (not MAXIMIZE), slow hook, intentional walk less, and all other RP as quick hook, 1-2 inning max. You will want other guys to pitch in blowouts to save up your stud for games that count.

[Paul5757]

You're crazy. :D

I've had HAL use $0.75 with very few saves--RL Jackson, Kipper, Carman--as the primary closer over RPs with more saves (like Reardon).

[Outta Leftfield]

Hey, ths92110--welcome to the game!

These are really good questions, and you're lucky in that you're getting answers from some of the most experienced players in the game. And as may be obvious to you, on certain points there seems to be clarity and agreement, but on others, TSN and Stratomatic themselves haven't been clear and there's a good deal of difference of opinion. So if you're a little confused, join the club! :D

That being said, I find Syke's view that HAL is guided by saves when picking the closer role very interesting--and Toi San's comment interesting too. Who can be sure of the truth? As it happens, I have a current team where HAL seems to have designated RL Jackson as my closer. He has 11 of my 12 saves so far. He's been pitching really well, but he also doesn't have a lot of saves on his cards. But then, neither do any of my other RPs. Jackson's top save total is 10, but all of my other RPs have years when they are below 10. As Sykes suggests, this just might be a hint that RLJ is in his 10 save year--a good year-- and that my other RPs are all below 10 saves. I'll keep an eye on this and see how it shakes out at the end of the year, and I can also look back on some previous seasons.

In terms of my own preferences, I tend to go with cheap bullpens. I avoid the "Maximize" closer setting, because I don't think the current closer practices found in real life MLB make much sense, especially in a simulation where real life issues of arm injury aren't a factor. I'd rather have an old style "relief ace" than a closer (think Rollie Fingers or Sparky Lyle.) So, I start out with few if any settings and watch what HAL does and how the pitchers perform. Gradually, I begin to add settings. I tend to put my best RP in the setup role because that puts him in "relief ace" situations--the 7th inning of close games, tie games, trailing by one run, etc. Your setup man on slow hook will pitch a lot of innings. I put my 2nd best pitcher in the closer role. If there are pitchers who I want to face only righties or lefties, I use those settings. If there are pitchers I really don't want used at all, or as little as possible, I set them to face only one way and limit them to 1 or 2 IP. You can also set them to come in only after, say, the 8th inning. With enough controls, an RP won't be used much and each control seems to further limit use. I've had RPs go 30 games without ever pitching.

Other people will approach the bullpen differently. A lot of it has to do with your philosophy of bullpens and what you feel comfortable with, so experiment and let your results lead you down the path of truth and enlightenment. :D :D

[Paul5757]

I think HAL generally uses some sort of OPS strategy when selecting a reliever, with a few "brain farts" possible. Where HAL falls down is in thinking ahead--he just looks at the current matchup, without considering who's on the opponent's bench or who's coming up next. HAL, it seems, ordinarily won't pull a pitcher after facing one batter, unless you use the avoid and quick hook features (and even then it's dicey sometimes).

I'm pretty sure saves don't play part in determing the reliever.

One one team, my replay leaders in saves were '84 Gossage (18 ) and '85 Carman (15). (Didn't have any reliever settings, except for an "avoid RHB" on a late-season pickup of Agosto. HAL was doing pretty good with alterning Carman and Gossage.) On that team, I had an '86 Moore card (7L, 21 saves in real life). If HAL chose by saves or by balance, you'd expect Moore to be the primary closer vs. LHP.

Interesting note to that team is that I picked up '88 Agosto late in the year, and HAL managed to get him 4 saves. (He effectively started to replace Carman with Agosto.) Looking at Agosto's '88 card, this makes some sense, as there aren't a whole of of extra-base hits on the LH side. But HAL tended to leave him in vs. RHB. A bad idea, obviously. So I set him on avoid RHB and quick hook.

On a second team, my replay save leaders were '85 Reardon (15) and '82 RL Jackson (13). On that team, I had '83 Tekulve, '94 Worrell, and '85 Schrom (who started some). In real life, Reardon had 41 saves, Tekulve had 18, Worrell had 11, and Jackson had 6.

[Semper Gumby]

In the CD-ROM version, HAL tries to guard player usage based on their actual stats unless you select "ignore overusage".

When you play the CD-ROM version without ignoring overusage selected, HAL will typically select (all things equal) the pitcher with the most innings (like primary at bats) - the same with position players.

Thus, HAL will select a Goose (e.g., 100+ inning season card) over Eck (e.g., sub 100 inning season card) as HAL's logic is to manage the usage so these players can last a 162 game season.

Now - TSN activated the "ignore overusage" controls so we can get 500 ABs from players with 200 PAs on their actual cards - same with innings. However, the underlying coding is still in calculating away as well as TSN's retrofit of the relief pitching abuse controls (super-reliever issue from the 200x leagues). I'm not clear how those impacted 80s version as I have seen relief pitchers make appearances in three games per a series without too many ill effects.

If you play the TSN game long enough and kept tabs on how HAL used your players during the season's course with minimal individual / manager strategy settings, then you can make a gut estimate on what card (seasons) you've drawn - but relying on HAL to smoke them out his a tad myopic.

Even if you draw the player's best season, he can still significantly underperform his season for you.

[yak1407]

3- Call me crazy BUT, based on what I have seen in non 80's games, HAL will use the guy with the most SAVES on their card as teh primary closer. With this in mind, it can help to determine years of 80's RP to leave it blank and see who HAL uses. This may lead to a guestimate on a reveal.

I agree with Toi San, right now I have Bob kipper leading my team in saves with 19 at the 72-mark. I started my season with the expectation that Tim Burke would be my closer and HAL wouldn't even use him. So I used him as a set-up man for one series and he was shelled. He's been picked up by two other teams since and is still getting shelled.
For this team, his has consistently used Eichhorn as the set-up guy and Kipper as the closer, even though Duane Ward is in the pen.

[Semper Gumby]

[quote:8fb5f6e33a]HAL will use the guy with the most SAVES on their card as teh primary closer. [/quote:8fb5f6e33a]

[quote:8fb5f6e33a]right now I have Bob kipper leading my team in saves with 19 at the 72-mark. I started my season with the expectation that Tim Burke would be my closer and HAL wouldn't even use him. [/quote:8fb5f6e33a]

Huh?

If my math is right, [b:8fb5f6e33a]Kipper[/b:8fb5f6e33a]'s best card had him toss [b:8fb5f6e33a]83 innings [/b:8fb5f6e33a]and get [b:8fb5f6e33a]4 saves[/b:8fb5f6e33a].

His next best card he tossed [b:8fb5f6e33a]62 innings[/b:8fb5f6e33a] with [b:8fb5f6e33a]3 saves[/b:8fb5f6e33a].

On [b:8fb5f6e33a]Burke[/b:8fb5f6e33a]'s card, he has equal or more saves (80% more innings) than [b:8fb5f6e33a]Kipper[/b:8fb5f6e33a] -

1986 - 100 innings / 4 saves
1987 - 91 / 18
1988 - 82 / 18
1989 - 84 / 28
1990 - 75 / 20

Arguably, [b:8fb5f6e33a]Burke[/b:8fb5f6e33a]'s worse seasons are 1988 (18 saves) and 1986 (4 saves).

Under the belief that HAL would select the RP with the most saves, he should have taken [b:8fb5f6e33a]Burke'[/b:8fb5f6e33a]s card on 4 years - if not 5.

Of course, my HAL lean towards the pitcher with the most inning thought doesn't workout as well as [b:8fb5f6e33a]Burke[/b:8fb5f6e33a] had been a horse during his TSN used careers unless you had his 1990 card. :wink: