Archive of SportingNews.com's old SOM Baseball forum

I don't know if it's burnout starting to set in, frustration, or a combination of the two but I've started loathing over the future direction of this game from TSN. As much as I love playing Back to the 80's, I am fed up with the amount of inaction that TSN has taken with supporting and marketing this product. It has such potential to go the next level but to no avail.

Yes, this is probably going to be a long winded note of lamentation so you can avoid the trouble by clicking the back button on your browser to save yourself the agony now....

I help support the bandwidth here with my dollars so I'm going to take the opportunity to express myself to my heart's content. I notice very little activity here from TSN on the part of the moderators and/or Bernie unless it includes some sort of "sticky" posting to give us a heads up on why the network went down or if there is a discount or if they think we'd think it was cool if we could author some damn box score errata for the brand spanking new 2006 version. Other than that, the 80's board is pretty much a ghost town with some very decent community residents.

Don't get me wrong. The regular 80's community here is pretty cool. I enjoy the virtual company of the regulars here and enjoy the good natured ribbing, humor, observations, and even solid gold songs that show up from time to time from YounFan. It all makes the hobby that much more fun.

Nonetheless, I'm pretty damn sour and downright envious over the updates, revisions, and additions that the other formats get for those that enjoy that as their hobby. I don't want to get into an argument over which format is better than the other because that isn't what this post is all about. I can accept the differences in opinion and am always in favor of more choice for the masses. I can't, however, accept the neglect that this particular format receives in comparison to the others.

Yes, we've all talked about how the Strat-O-Matic game is a "niche" market and TSN isn't going to devote the dollars to something that doesn't give them a decent return on investment. Blah Blah. Well, they certainly aren't losing any money on the Strat-O-Matic market otherwise they wouldn't have hired a full time employee to this hobby. They would have shut it down all together.

As far as I know, I've never seen a TSN employee actually come on here and say that the market is just not there for us to bother with all the bells and whistles that you guys want but thanks for your 25 bucks per team to help us break even on this project! Please. I may have been born at night but I wasn't born [i:1bbb74e452]last[/i:1bbb74e452] night.

Whatever the margin they make on the total package for the Strat-O games is enough for them to keep the formats up and running full steam. Hell, it's important enough for them to get a new server upgrade. It's important enough to not let an entire weekend go by without boxscores too.

Now, going back to the "niche" market theme. If Strat-O is such a "niche" market then what does that make this game, [u:1bbb74e452]Back to the 80's[/u:1bbb74e452], that I love so much? "The 'niche' of the 'niche' market." Cripes. I'd feel worse about that if it weren't for the players trying to support the [b:1bbb74e452]FantaSim[/b:1bbb74e452] format. No disrespect to those guys at all since that is a hobby that they enjoy but if misery loves company, then we're right there at the bottom of the food chain with those guys. [b:1bbb74e452][i:1bbb74e452]At least Fantasim gets appropriate marketing and advertising space on the (expletive) fantasy home page![/i:1bbb74e452][/b:1bbb74e452]

"Well," said I, "if the 80's market is so small that it can't be bothered with when it comes to improvements, what can I do to help the situation?" Hmm. Well, I start off with a commitment to [b:1bbb74e452]never[/b:1bbb74e452] put any of my dollars into any other format. That I have done. 41 teams played or in progress and all of them exclusively on this single format. Well, that's a start but what good has that served? "It's not enough. I don't spend enough money to make a difference."

"OK," said I, "try and be a virtual ambassador to the 80's format and start recruiting!" That I have done as well and I am not alone in that department either. There has always been a good support group here for new people trying out their new wings in this format. The community here is A+.

I started to blog on this format back last fall also and would like to start again [i:1bbb74e452]if[/i:1bbb74e452] I thought that it would get this format noticed by recruiting a huge number of converts to the 80's game. At the very least, I hope that I inspired a few people to at least give the game a chance.

Truth is, collectively, it looks like there are a lot of new people that have come on board in the past year and really enjoy the format. So, that is quite good. Of course, there is never any kind of disclosure publicly on just what the demographics are for each of the formats from TSN so there is no way to actually know if 80's membership has actually increased. Still would be nice to know.

We still don't matter though.

Some may argue that TSN [i:1bbb74e452]has[/i:1bbb74e452] made some strides with the 80's game. I say horse hockey. What? They "added" the feature of card reveals at the end of the season? Nice feature but it [b:1bbb74e452][i:1bbb74e452]should have been in the game from the very beginning.[/i:1bbb74e452][/b:1bbb74e452] All they did was throw us a bone folks.

What to know some of the other bones that TSN has thrown us? Have we forgotten that when TSN first implemented world rankings that they decided that the 80's format would be weighted at a -20% since we were "an older" format and required less skill. :roll: Well, I haven't forgotten it. What did they do? After a couple of months, they threw us another bone. They bumped us up to 100% weighting after all the complaining. What did that cost them to do that? ZERO. What really perturbs me about that is when TSN finally decided to throw us that bone; it was done without notice or announcement. I remember being the first one to notice the change and to publicly thank TSN for it.

Then there are those times when these gigantic threads would get started about how the "80's game could be improved by TSN." The entire community pitched in to offer ideas. Heck, I even think Sykes25 already has the ground work complete for fixing some of the (expletive) up salaries in this format. And just when we think that no one from TSN was listening, a moderator would show up and "assure" us that they were listening. [b:1bbb74e452]Taking notes, in fact![/b:1bbb74e452] And "all of your suggestions are going to be brought up at the next staff meeting."

Well, I now know what the world's 5 most frequent lying phrases are:

1. "The check is in the mail."
2. "I love you."
3. "I'll still be here in the morning."
4. "The dog ate my homework."
5. And, "all of your suggestions are going to be brought up at the next staff meeting."

How many times have we asked for the least and still got nothing? What exactly is the problem with implementing a (expletive) variable salary cap? How long would that (expletive) take? How long would it take to give this game the simple features that ATG2 and 2005 have? How long have we waited? Blah Blah

So there we were on the eve of Bernie's hiring and everyone is excited that TSN has put at least *one* full time staff member on the Strat-O-Matic product and what is announced? All these great (expletive) new (expletive) features that 2006 is going to get. What's next on the docket for improvement? Ah, yes, TSN [i:1bbb74e452]must[/i:1bbb74e452] give ATG2 a makeover. (Expletive) that.

"Bernie, what about the 80's game?"

"It will be improved in due time."

"Due time" my (expletive.) Show me a (expletive) Gantt chart on when you plan to improve this product? Oh that's right, it's just more lip service isn't it? Otherwise, we'd already know what the plans were with a (expletive) "spoiler" sticky.

Speaking of "stickies?" Why is it that other "moderated" boards can sticky stuff like [b:1bbb74e452]Draft and Trade vs. Ultimate[/b:1bbb74e452] but we can't get a key post to help newbies starting out in the 80's format up at the top of our forum? Oh, that's right, we're basically unmoderated and no one cares anyway.

What else really burns my (expletive?) How about the SOM Tour? Don't get me wrong...I'm not disrespecting members that like those formats but to go ahead and announce that TSN is now going to endorse that Tour officially? Whatever. Good marketing though. [b:1bbb74e452]I sure know that the 80's game and Fantasim don't need the marketing.[/b:1bbb74e452]

The mystery format is pure genius and it is treated like a red-headed step child and I really don't get it? "Set it and forget it." But really, it's mostly [b:1bbb74e452]fuhgeddaboudit![/b:1bbb74e452]

So I looked at my teams last night and I looked at my remaining shiny new 80's credits too and I thought, "What is the point?" Whoopee! I just invested more money into a product that TSN would rather backburner into oblivion.

[b:1bbb74e452]My dollars are being taken for granted. It ain't much I suppose to make a world of difference but hey, they're [i:1bbb74e452]my dollars[/i:1bbb74e452] and me only continuing to buy this product only perpetuates the image that the 80's game is a set and forget it genre.[/b:1bbb74e452] I keep buying the product anyways, right?

Well, I've decided enough is enough. I want action and I want a timeline for implementation also. I want to know what is going to be done [i:1bbb74e452]exactly[/i:1bbb74e452] to make the [b:1bbb74e452]mystery format[/b:1bbb74e452] better than it is right now.

I don't want lip service - I want a (expletive) Gantt Chart chock full of goody tasks that are going to enhance this game.

Or at least have the guts to say there isn't anything that is planned for this game. Don't ride the fence and don't be esoteric about it either.

I've got 7 credits left and that is all I'm going to buy. I'm going to keep the commitments that I've made to some of the veteran leagues that I am in until I finally run out of credits.

The only way that I'm ever going to invest a single penny back into this game is to have this post answered by someone from TSN with [b:1bbb74e452]a plan for this game.[/b:1bbb74e452]

A plan is not lip service. A plan is not "let's make this a suggestion thread so that I can write down all the nifty ideas you guys have!" A plan is not "I'm going to take all those nifty ideas to the next staff meeting" either.

A plan is:

1. The items that are going to be implemented.
2. When they will be implemented.

Bottom line.

I figure that with 7 remaining credits I might make it to summer depending on whether I am fortunate enough to make the finals or not between then and now.

I plan on bumping this thread every single day until I start to see some [b:1bbb74e452][i:1bbb74e452]activity[/i:1bbb74e452][/b:1bbb74e452] on the 80's front or until I run out of credits; whichever comes first.

I hope for the former but my experience tells me to expect the latter.

PROVE ME WRONG.

here here

I'm with Bj.

BJ, chill. If they change they game I'd only like minor changes like a few new players, some price adjustments and downloadable stats like from the CD rom export, and variable salary caps.

I'm sure the 80's is not a be revenue producer. Some is related to marketing and others are not willing to invest the time it takes to play this game.

Some times I think I'd be happy if they just didn't pull the plug on it.

YF

[quote:7422af7ff0="bjs73"]The only way that I'm ever going to invest a single penny back into this game is to have this post answered by someone from TSN with [b:7422af7ff0]a plan for this game.[/b:7422af7ff0][/quote:7422af7ff0]

Do you think TSN really cares if 1 person never plays the 80's game (or any format) again? If it is a financial penalty you are trying to inflict on TSN, they won't even feel it. If you enjoy this game (and apparently you do based on how many teams you have played and your interest in the improvement of this game) then the only one who would be hurt by you not playing is YOU.

That is not entirely correct after I think about it. All the rest of us 80's regulars would be hurt as well since we would be loosing a friend and competitor.

I am with YF about not wanting major changes to the game. It is pretty good the way it is. I am all for minor changes like:

1. Spruce up the appearance of the game.
2. List the owner's ID on the Standings page like all the other TSN games.
3. Possibly add a few new players to the player pool. Don't go crazy here or it will turn into another ATG game with too many players.
4. How about changing up some of the card years on the current players? That would be cool!

Just these simple ideas would make a really nice upgrade IMHO. Major changes of some sort could really alter the way this game is played and it could be for the worse.

[quote:abcf1eda06]BJ, chill. If they change they game I'd only like minor changes like a few new players, some price adjustments and downloadable stats like from the CD rom export, and variable salary caps.[/quote:abcf1eda06]

I want those things too. And maybe a little bit more like a better interface. Is the game good? Yes. Does it need a few tweaks? Yes.

We agree that these are minor tweaks that would make the game better and yet at the rate that the bones are tossed our way, I guess TSN would consider it [b:abcf1eda06]major.[/b:abcf1eda06] :roll:

What has TSN done in two years to help this game? They gave us card reveals at the end of the season. Can you think of anything else? I can't.

We deserve a little more than 1 (simple) action item in 2 years.

LMB Wrote

[quote:0b055fbdcd]Do you think TSN really cares if 1 person never plays the 80's game (or any format) again? If it is a financial penalty you are trying to inflict on TSN, they won't even feel it. If you enjoy this game (and apparently you do based on how many teams you have played and your interest in the improvement of this game) then the only one who would be hurt by you not playing is YOU. [/quote:0b055fbdcd]

Not if others like myself jump into the pile too.

I continue to play teams currently to fullfill obligations to keeper leagues. I am with BJS in his feeling of being the red-headed step child.

I've got 87 teams between active and completed 80's seasons. 9 more credits sitting and waiting to be spent. I purchased 2 five packs of SOM products when the downtime discount was live. Outside of a 5-pack to kick off the 2006 season, I don't expect to contribute any more money either until we get a time line as well.

I love this hobby, and I love this product. I have time to dedicate to make this better and like BJS, feel very ignored and want to do something about it.

Not asking for an overhaul by any means. A timeline for tweaks is what we want to see.

-Interface update
-Variable Salary Caps
-Salary Adjustments on some players
-Possibly some new players to the set

Not ground breaking crap here folks.

[quote:8a02d955f5]Do you think TSN really cares if 1 person never plays the 80's game (or any format) again? If it is a financial penalty you are trying to inflict on TSN, they won't even feel it.[/quote:8a02d955f5]

No, I don't think that they necessarily give a crap about 1 person. I'm trying to avoid the financial penalty that I inflict upon myself for supporting a product that is perenially neglected. So, yeah, the $600 bucks that I've spent (taking out the freebies that I got for championships) probably doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme. But it means enough to me as a consumer. I really like this game but the thrill is starting to fade. $600 bucks buys two months of groceries in my neck of the woods. My contribution may not be important enough (ie, enough money) to TSN as an individul but I know for a fact that it is important to me.

I vote in every US election too. It is the same thing in my opinion. Those that choose not to vote sometimes will justify it by saying, "what does it matter, I'm too small to make a difference. My vote doesn't matter." Just when you think it doesn't matter, the state of Florida proves us differently.

[quote:8a02d955f5]That is not entirely correct after I think about it. All the rest of us 80's regulars would be hurt as well since we would be loosing a friend and competitor.[/quote:8a02d955f5]

Thanks LMB. That was kind of you to say.

[quote:8a02d955f5]1. Spruce up the appearance of the game.
2. List the owner's ID on the Standings page like all the other TSN games.
3. Possibly add a few new players to the player pool. Don't go crazy here or it will turn into another ATG game with too many players.
4. How about changing up some of the card years on the current players? That would be cool![/quote:8a02d955f5]

Amen. Let's get that stuff moving and I'd be happy. But then again, what has TSN done in the past two years? Nada. And nothing is looming on the horizon either. I am starting to lose hope. This has greatly affected my patience as you can well imagine.

[quote:8a02d955f5]Just these simple ideas would make a really nice upgrade IMHO. Major changes of some sort could really alter the way this game is played and it could be for the worse.[/quote:8a02d955f5]

They are simple changes, aren't they? I guess since we've gotten next to zero in 2 years that I guess I would consider it a major upgrade. I think most everyone else here would too.

Excellent post bjs.

You've helped me out with the Disco Infernos during my 1st. venture "back" to the 80's. I gotta admit...I really love this format. I talked about it so much, I've recruited a good friend of mine from the ATG II /2005 games.

I've got my 2nd. team starting on Monday. There's no better feeling than getting that $.75 RP's best year. On the other hand, spending big bucks and getting Puckett's worst year can cause my hair to turn grey very quickly.

I've tried the ATG II format and didn't like it. IMHO, you can sleep through the autodraft or live draft for that matter, and still field a very competitive team. (I've seen it done...you gotta know what to do though...)

I'm also trying to be finished with the 1969 format as well. Problem is my last 2 teams have made it to the Finals, and I've been using credits to play more.

I have to admit that when the 2006 cards come out, I'm gonna play. I'm already committed to a few leagues with my regular online buddies. I'll also try and jump in to a TSN Autodraft league (w/ some Newbies) in order to win a credit or 2... :wink: :wink:

I will play the 80's game much more in the future though. It's a BLAST!

visick

I actually don't mind that 80's is a cult game for a cult following. Let TSN market all the other games. It seems that people find 80's and those who find it like it and keep playing. Perhaps 80's is the game for Strat veterans who want to spice up their online experience. (Strangely enough, though, I started with 80's and have expanded to ATGII and 1969.) It's different, it's addictive, and it can be played over and over. It requires way different strategy than any of the other games.

I too would like to see the card set expanded, the current players revised with different years added, the ability to play at different salary caps, and manager ID's in the standings.

But if TSN does not deign to do that, so be it. I'm not all that concerned with how much money they make or don't make on this format. As long as people enjoy playing it-- and they do-- it will be available. The only bad thing TSN can do is pull the plug and I don't see that happening. There are too many new people playing this game all the time. The right people do seem to find it.