Archive of SportingNews.com's old SOM Baseball forum

The govt will not have the will to raise rates and taxes until inflation and debasement are so far along it will be too late. We are kicking can down the road on almost all issues fiscal and otherwise as we witness the fall of America and the inevitable lower standard of living for the next generations as those in power try to maintain as much as they can at the expense of the presently disenfranchised. Obama tried to talk long term but was dealt such a bad hand that he will have to focus on getting re-elected and focus on giveaways and avoiding difficult decisions. Everything corporate, political, and individual is short term oriented in self interest. The rest of the World is harder working and hungrier. It is going to be a long, slow, painful slide unfortunately.

Franky - my reply is going to be short since I'm sitting under a bridge on a speedboat writing this.

I don't agree with the analysis that WWII deficit spending recovered the economy. there was massive deficit spending after the war as well, namely the Marshall Plan in '48-50. the difference is WWII deficits were financed by US citizens and stayed in the country. Marshall Plan dollars were paid back to the US by the nations that used it. today all those deficit interest dollars are going overseas.

Also, the debt is already so high we're rapidly approaching the point where it will be impossible to pay the debt off. Right now about 72 cents of every tax dollar goes to interest on the debt. Won't be long until that's all we'll be able to pay for.

Roosevelt didn't have a debt when he started deficit spending.

your question about what I agree with concerning my party is irrelevant to this discussion and looks like an attempt to marginalize me again. If you're really interested in my politics send me a personal and we can discuss it.

I never said deficit spending creates jobs five years later, but nice try again at putting false words into a post of mine again, like the death panels and Sarah Palin. I read Saul Alinsky, too. My Bush comment concerned how you say deficit spending creates jobs and is good, except when Bush did it. Can't have it both ways.

Clinton had a Repub Congress for 6 years of his two terms. those 6 were the best he had, his first two were awful. My response to "Clintonomics" is, maybe unfettered control of the govt by one party doesn't work so well.

I say deficit spending takes capital that should be available to small business out of circulation, thus hindering small business's abililty to borrow and create jobs. More govt jobs, less real jobs. that's happening right now. I don't find that logical and there's your answer.

Gotta go, I'll be back tomorrow around the same time. Lake is great, weather cold but clear.

What lake are you on ugrant? And I knew you weren't Bud Grant, BTW.

The bailout of the financial industry saved us from an economic collapse, which would have cost us trillions and resulted in great misery

Franky, your above statement might well have been correct but the current plan of action is taking us down the same road, only delaying the time of economic Armageddon. This country economically has totally screwed up with people spending money they don't have (as has the government) and they are looking for the hardest workers (those who were industrious and successful) to pay for everyone else's screw ups. And as someone else said previously, other nations are harder working and hungrier. If you were to invest in an economy like a stock over the next 20 years, would you want to put your monies here or in a place like China?

gdwarf - I'm on now overcast Lake Oroville, CA, sitting under the hwy70 bridge at the end of Lake Oroville Marina, which used to be called Lime Saddle Marina.

We have the entire Marina to ourselves. Pretty cool both literally and figuratively.

Lots of time invested. Maybe keep up to 10 -redraft and change divisions?

[quote:0426b55161="Rjnewman"]Lots of time invested. Maybe keep up to 10 -redraft and change divisions?[/quote:0426b55161]

I'd have to say no this time around . . . can't speak for everyone, but my bid on the upper-tier players would have been different if it was a keeper league.

I'll be ready to rumble in a few days, but here is a quickie:

I wrote [quote:56bc71bec3]ugrant, on WWII spending, I was pointing out that deficit spending prior to and during the war caused increased employment during the buildup and US involvement in the war. Thus, the classical Keynesian view is that the New Deal had insufficient deficit spending, but the massive deficit spending during the war pulled the US out of the Depression. This happened during the war, not after the war. [/quote:56bc71bec3]

ugrant wrote that he disagreed.

The facts from the US dept of labor statistics can be found here:
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/lf/aat1.txt
In 1940, unemployment was 14.6%. In 1944, unemployment was 1.2%.

ugrant wrote: [quote:56bc71bec3]Right now about 72 cents of every tax dollar goes to interest on the debt. [/quote:56bc71bec3]

The facts are that about 14 cents of every tax dollar goes to interest on the debt. See http://www.concordcoalition.org/learn/budget/federal-budget-pie-charts

Nice job, Franky, for staying on topic for once. Well done! See if you can keep it that way when you "rumble."

One interesting aspect of a rain storm is that it has given me limited internet access from inside the Marina.

I still heartily disagree with your massive deficit spending analysis. Using 40-44 unemployment statistics cherry picks data from a time when millions where in uniform who werent employed in 40 and the labor pool had to be expanded in 43 and 44 to include women and minorities just to find enough labor talent. I will state again WWII was a unique event. Using your own link, the unemployment rate grew when those millions took the uniform off.

As for my 72 cents comment, touche to you for fact checking. I guess writing off the top of my head on a speedboat does me no credit so I'll endeavor to fact check myself in the future. What I will do is point to the following:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/34104722

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/23/business/23rates.html?scp=2&sq=national%20debt&st=cse

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/debt-summary-table.htm

If I had better internet access I'd respond more forcefully but that will have to wait until I'm back at my desktop. this post alone took almost two hours to complete - but I was up anyway pumping out the bilges.

Does anyone have an up to date spreed sheet. I can not find mine.