ATG 6 auction league: Chat thread

[DHowser]

litangel, you lost me at "pulling a DHowser". :wink:

Count me in for sure as well. I like the closed bidding, but I'll do either. I think that litangels idea actually sounds like a good one.

One thing I would like to see is the divisions and parks set before we start. I think that would add a nice twist.

[hackra]

I think the ante plan would be a huge problem to keep records on, and I would not like that idea.

Younger Howsers idea of assigning divisions ahead of time seems fine to me, and I would also be fine with prepicking parks if everyone agrees.

regarding Litangel's idea of taking the 3 high bidders and then going to an open auction, I do not understand why the price should start with the #3 bid...it seems to me it should start with the top bid (or at least the second) if we went that way. I also think that this will take a lot longer (maybe I am wrong, but I don't mind the time issue). Wouldn't we would have to wait for the open auction to get done before we knew who would nominate the next player. Please explain how that part would work to make this any faster than the straight open auction.

For what it's worth I would be in on an open auction or litangel's proposed modified open auction (assuming I understood all of the rules). I would also be fine with an auction format just like the current one.

What do people think about allowing a 28 player roster? With 100+ new players available, I think this may be a way to try out the new blood.....I do wonder what Pujols card we will get (wouldn't it be way cool to see El Hombre and The Man playing on the same field together or Randy Johnson vs. Walter Johnson). Did I say I was excited about starting an ATG6 auction?

:D 8-)

[DHowser]

Hackra, I think (and I could very well be wrong here) that with the part open auction, the 3 highest bidders move on to the open auction for said player, but whoever had the highest bid in the closed auction part would nominate a new player right away, thus keeping the closed auction going.

[kimkrichbaum2]

I am OK with a sealed bid auction, just as we have been doing, My idea was just for folks who want a change, and I am OK with that too. I would not play a pure open auction cause of time.

As for my hybrid-auction idea, DHowser is correct, you would not wait for the open auction to finish, the winner would propose another player, and the closed and open auctions will run simultaneously.

The question is, How do we avoid an owner winning more players than they can afford. This is my best idea on this so far - No owner can have the auctions they are involved in add up to more than the money they have left to spend. (their cash remaining - .50 for each player remaining to be chosen)
Any owner can drop from any auction where they are not the top bidder at any time, freeing up space to be in other auctions (they must announce this). If an owner is in the top 3 for an auction that they can not afford, they are skipped over and the auction starts with the top 3 owners who have salary cap space. If an owner who was skipped over, drops from another auction freeing up the the needed cash, they can join the auction they skipped ONLY IN THE FIRST 24 HOURS. This can create a 4 person auction.

I think the auction could start with the #1 bid, the #2 bid, or the #3 bid, each would have its own advantages, but I would be fine with any of them.

[hackra]

It sounds like several people are prepared to go for an ATG6 auction, and the modified auction that was proposed appears to have some interest as well.

There also seems to be some interest in picking parks and divisions in advance of the auction.

Shall we agree to these ideas and write up a set of auction rules in preparation?
(maybe litangel can write up and clarify the specific rules for the open auction part)

[PotKettleBlack]

In.

Analysis of various ideas, even mine:
Open Auction: Liable to produce a very slow auction. Theoretically possible to shorten it by having you auction 180 players (15*12) or 240 (20*12) rather than 300, and letting people use the auto auction/waivers for bench or scrubs.

Second Price auction (my idea): like the idea because it keeps valuations more rational which leaves more flex later in the draft.

Ante: Fun if someone could build a software system to track it automatically. See that it is an administrative nightmare in this context.

Sealed bid to closed bid at the top 3: Fundamental flaws here demonstrated through some what-if scenarios:
#1- Top three sealed bids for Player X are 6.5, 7.25, 12.5.
#2- top five sealed bids for player y are: 1.25, 1.26, 1.27, 1.45, 1.75.

The problem with case #1 is that the top bidder has basically doubled the next two bidders up. Should they get a second chance to open auction with him? Not saying it's a problem for the draft as a whole, but it changes the dynamic of valuation quite a bit. The goal becomes to get into the top 3, rather than win outright.
Problem with case #2 is a little more of a problem: Is there something magical about applying some game theory guess work and dropping 1.27 rather than 1.25 for a bid? Should the two guys who were collectively three cents be kicked out of an open auction simply because they didn't game it right, even though, in open auction, they might outbid all three-four ahead of them?

A solution to both: Rather than top three, how about a percentage of the top bid, say 15-25%, or a flat amount, say 1.5 million within the winning bid. . In case one, the high bidder gets it outright. In case two, you have a five person open auction.

Don't like the idea of pre-pick parks, because the closed auction format gives you limited control of your players. Pre-selecting park may wind up with you drafting a team suited to a small ball park but stuck in a hangem and bangem park. Course, that might be amusing too.

Any rate, am up for whatever folks decide as long as it doesn't become a full time job.

[hackra]

Here is what I would propose, and I would like to hear if anyone would object.

A closed/open auction

1) we start with closed bidding as in the current auction ($80/$200 format)

1a) we randomize for divisions prior to the auction (but pick unique parks afterwards based on reverse order of team salary as before).

2) If the top bid is over $1 million higher than the field, or there is only an opening bid (11 passes), there is no open auction, the player is won outright.

3) If a player is not won outright, there is an open auction for that player involving the top bidder, the manager(s) with the next highest bid, AND ALSO any manager who is within $0.25 million of the top bid.

4) the open auction will start at the average (rounded [b:45bd0821a5]down[/b:45bd0821a5]) of the top 2 bids with the top bidder assumed to have started the open auction at that price.

5) the top bidder in the closed auction will name a new player for the closed auction once the open auction is announced

6) We will revert to an all closed auction once ANY manager's team is awarded it's 20th player, however all auctions that have already started will continue in the above fashion until they are complete. (this will likely take us 1/2 way through, but I added this to keep the entirety of the auction from dragging out for many months)

The open auction rules will be - all participants must respond by bidding or dropping out within 24 hours of any opening or new bid. (once you drop out, you may not reenter). all bids must be at least $0.10 million higher than the prior bid. (The top bidder has the opening bid, so does NOT have the option to drop out prior to the start of bidding). Obviously you may up the bid by more than $0.10 million if you wish.

There would be a separate message thread for open auctions, but when an open auction is won, the winner should announce the winning price on the closed auction bidding thread.

Each manager would need to be vigilant about knowing how much money they have to spend, as it will be assumed that your last bid in any open auction may win, and that money will be tied up until the open auction is complete (I can see the possibility that managers would have to drop out of the open auction due to lack of funds).


once we can agree on a ruleset, perhaps we can start signups.

Also will interested managers please post their preference for
a)DH or no DH
and
b)25 man rosters or allow up to 28 man rosters (assuming you save some bidding cash and cap room for the extra 1-3 players)

thanks,
Rick 8-)

[carr20]

My only comment on the open bidding process is that .1 seems unduly restrictive for a 3rd party. Obviously if the intent is to keep open bidding to 2 unless under extreme circumstances, then that makes sense. But if we are trying to tweak this so people who are "sooooo close" can re-bid, then I suggest expanding that a bit. It doesn't have to be the full million but maybe .25 or something like that.

I strongly prefer dh and don't care if someone wants a 28 man roster

Steve

[hackra]

[quote:50a2e4375b="carr20"]My only comment on the open bidding process is that .1 seems unduly restrictive for a 3rd party. Obviously if the intent is to keep open bidding to 2 unless under extreme circumstances, then that makes sense. But if we are trying to tweak this so people who are "sooooo close" can re-bid, then I suggest expanding that a bit. It doesn't have to be the full million but maybe .25 or something like that.

I strongly prefer dh and don't care if someone wants a 28 man roster

Steve[/quote:50a2e4375b]

that is why I asked for input. I think you are right about the 3rd party entry, and I will edit my proposed rules as you suggested.

Thanks
8-)

[kimkrichbaum2]

This sounds good and I have a couple of suggestions:

First - possible 28 Players - Yes
Second - DH? - Strong Yes

How about making qualification for the open auction really simple, any manager within 10% of the top bid is in. I like the proviso that if either there are 11 passes, or there is no one within 10%, the player is simply awarded.

I suggest that the minimum raise be .10 all the time in previous open auctions done on the board, bids went by tenths, not hundreths, and so .10 was the minimum bid. With the .05 raise, it could take 20 bids to go up a million!

I also think that choosing when we move from open-closed to pure closed based on when one owner reaches a certain point is too arbitrary. I also think some significant close bids come medium-late in the auction. My first choice would be to switch once 200 players have been proposed (2/3 of the way through) My second choice would be once 3 managers have their 20th player.