Labor Ratings trash talk section

[Wineman]

I'm not saying that the gaming is the only reason Petrosian won. He has a great squad and they played better than we did when it counted. He deserves kudos for not only having a good team, but pulling out all the managerial stops to win. Jet and I won't play some of the games other managers do and that probably has a lot to do with our lack of postseason success. That said, we won't change as it just doesn't feel like the right thing to do. We'll take our lumps and keep our integrity. That's the only point I'm trying to make.

[Proverbial Psalms]

[quote:031ce9d959="Wineman"]We'll take our lumps and keep our integrity[/quote:031ce9d959]

This essentially is a backhanded way to say...

(a) you believe things were handled, by petrosian, without integrity... which I cannot understand based on his explanation...

and...

(b) that despite the seeemingly polite congrats to petrosian for a competitive squad, you're still saying, in a somewhat subtle way (but maybe not so subtle to me), that you really only lost because of this issue

I say this because when you bring together the two points... "take lumps", along with "keep integrity" like you did, are you really saying "not in this case, but rather in OTHER cases this has occured"... or are you saying "petro cheated us, but we hold our heads up"... the question is to you.

[ArrylT]

I agree with wjanssen, that you were damning Petrosian with faint praise.

Petrosian won fair & square within the rules & did nothing unethical or illegal. One could argue that having 2 heads is better than one, and of course the benefits of a rating system finely tuned, yet I wonder if Petrosian would have said 'well I lost - but I would have won if I had another person helping me out and was only running 1-2 teams vs. X number'.

In any case - one can hardly classify a late roster change as unbaseball like - not considering player routinely use performance enhancing substances or cork bats and other little things to give them an advantage. Meanwhile managers do their best to steal signs, and some owners spend 2-3x as much as other owners.

It would be a different story if an owner was able to log in after 10pm and hack the system to make changes post-facto. However that is obviously not the case & Petrosian played within the rules & to the best of his ability - just as JTJ/WM did the same.

To each his/her own - but I can honestly state, even when I lost games I felt I should have won, I have never accused another owner of being unethical or gaming the game or suggest that the main reason they won was because of such practices. Maybe bad luck or horrid die rolls though. ;)

[joethejet]

I'm not sure Wineman has read the whole thread. I know I don't think that Petro did anything that he doesn't usually do. He certainly wasn't trying to trick us. Next time I'm in the playoffs I will ask the other manager when he intends to set his pitching. I think it is only fair.

There is no way of knowing, without seeing the die rolls, whether the small tweaks we would have made against Krause would have made a difference. Given the way our best players hit in the entire series it probably wouldn't have mattered a wit.

We were clearly cold as ice (normal for us in the playoffs), a team that hits LHP as well as this one does *should* score at least one run against them. We managed to get all of 9 hits in 12.2 IP. This, after hitting .300 on the season v LHP. Not like either of those guys is Koufax!!! Only in one game did our offense do anything like it did all season and that game we were helped by the X-Chart. Heck the reason he probably made so many errors is that it's likey we were all over the pitchers card for the whole series!

That's just the way the playoffs are, it's 5 lousy games and any team can lose to any team. I'm just happy that we lost to a team that won 95 games and is very talented and well managed. We knew it would be a tough series coming into it.

It's too bad they don't do what MLB does and not allow you to play a team from your own Division in the first round. It's tough to win 102 games and get nothing for your efforts. :(

Enough wining about losing, it's a friggin' dice game and just like when Hubbell lost to Martina, we pick the wrong times to not get the rolls. We got plenty of breaks during the season, just not when we really needed them. What are you going to do? :? C'est le SOM.

Jet

[tkl33]

Just so everyone knows...I will be starting Joss, Plank, Alexander, Caldwell...in that order this series. :wink: :)

I don't really care who my opponent starts....

Good luck to Petrosian in the Finals.

Tim

[Wineman]

AT & Jannsen - Let me be as clear as possible: Petro beat us by playing better ball than we did during the series. I don't know if the last minute setting of starting pitching had an impact or not. I agree with Jet that I am much more frustrated over having to play the second-best team in the league during the first round than I am over the pitcher issue.

My personal viewpoint is that while using everything at your disposal to gain an advantage is certainly within the rules, it does not always jive with what I think is "right". For example, some managers are notorious for making free agent moves after 10 pm EST on the first night of play. This is certainly within the rules, but it doesn't make it right, IMO. Other managers can disagree, but I am entitled to my opinion, aren't I?

[The Last Druid]

Wineman: Are you fucking kidding me, I'm gaming the starting pitching?? I gave a crystal clear lucid explanation that I was doing no such thing. As far as I'm concerned you can go fuck yourself.

[Wineman]

Very elegantly stated, Petro, though very difficult to actually do. :wink:

[Proverbial Psalms]

[quote:5d6336f098="Wineman"]Very elegantly stated, Petro, though very difficult to actually do[/quote:5d6336f098]I also think it's "very difficult" to confuse right from wrong... and "very difficult" to believe that Petrosian acted without integrity, yet you found a way to do those things, so don't give up on Petrosian's suggestion without first trying :wink:

(By the way, I can't believe I'm actually actively posting in order to defend petrosian... :? :roll: :shock: has anyone read the thermometer in Hades lately, or seen the species of that flying mammal? Guess it must be strictly on principle :P )

[Wineman]

I don't think I need to try since you guys are doing such a good job of it already. :shock:

Why does Petro need defending, anyway?