General Managers Keeper League

[Ninersphan]

[quote:e4aa89f11a="kaviksdad"]I have taken the concerns presented here into consideration and have decided the following:

1) I modified the rules allowing only those players with SOM cards eligible for the draft on Sept. 13th. The draft actually began on Sept. 16th. For 3 days the rules, which are posted at the beginning of this thread, were there for all to read and understand. I understand that Qk and I may have had communication problems, as I sent him a preliminary set of the rules before the league began that did not include this modification. Nevertheless, [b:e4aa89f11a]I believe that since everyone had the same access to the rules long before the draft began, there is no need for me unilaterally change them at this point.[/b:e4aa89f11a] To do so would put those players who do not follow this thread as closely as others at a disadvantage, and could only lead to more confusion.
[b:e4aa89f11a]
So I will not unilaterally make any changes to the initial draft process. [/b:e4aa89f11a]

2) As to the proposals to a) make next season's free agent draft and prospect draft serpentine and b) end the current draft at 30-35 and allow non-carded players to be chosen on the boards:

The rules of this league do not specify [b:e4aa89f11a]when[/b:e4aa89f11a] rule changes can be made, but they do specify [b:e4aa89f11a]how[/b:e4aa89f11a] they are made. While I consider this to be "my" league, I do so only in the spirit that I put it together and got it off the ground (with help, of course). I don't feel that I should be making rule changes on my own. It may be "my" league, but it belongs to each of us. There is a process place to change the rules.

I believe that Qk and Sandy have valid concerns and I can sympathize. I'm sure each of us has our concerns about how this draft is playing out - and that there might be owners sacrificing this coming season in order to set up next year. Those are valid concerns and to address them I will offer the following proposals for vote:

[b:e4aa89f11a]Proposal No. 1:[/b:e4aa89f11a]

The initial prospect draft and the 2008 spring free agent draft are to be serpentine. This decision will not affect future spring free agent or prospect drafts.

[b:e4aa89f11a]Proposal No. 2:[/b:e4aa89f11a]

The current draft will be stopped after 36 rounds. At that time, any player with MLB experience will become eligible. Rounds 37 through 40 will be held on the boards. [b:e4aa89f11a]The draft order for Rounds 36 through 40 will be determined by randomizer[/b:e4aa89f11a] The league commissioner will be responsible for running this board draft. [size=18:e4aa89f11a][b:e4aa89f11a]There will be no less than a 2 day delay in order to allow all players to research the newly available players.[/b:e4aa89f11a][/size:e4aa89f11a]
Both rule changes are subject to the super-majority. 8 yes votes will be necessary to approve either proposal.

Indicate your choices here:

[u:e4aa89f11a]Proposal No. 1[/u:e4aa89f11a]
Kaviksdad -- No
Qksilver
Sandlotshrink
Smokey
Dr. Tax
Ninersphan
Cummings
Cubit
Sykes
Akindian
AFDickie
Nythawk

[u:e4aa89f11a]Proposal No. 2[/u:e4aa89f11a]
Kaviksdad -- Yes
Qksilver
Sandlotshrink
Smokey
Dr. Tax
Ninersphan
Cummings
Cubit
Sykes
Akindian
AFDickie
Nythawk[/quote:e4aa89f11a]


Can't we count this weekend as the 2 days :roll:

[superflymacdaddyjuice]

I beg you do not do this.

I was perfectly prepared to chalk up my 25 bucks for the stinker I was gonna have to field this season. But there was a reward in it for me, a relatively high FA draft pick in a non serpentine draft with a vast talent pool available. [b:8642860956]I based my whole strategy on this rule.[/b:8642860956] is it unreasonable of me not to think that it would not be changed until atleast after the first season???To change it now breaks me. Ultimately, we have all known the rules for the better part of 17 rounds now. Why was this motion with such an extreme impact brought to the floor for a vote anway? WE are talking about every pick i have made in the last 15 rounds being impacted. 15 Rounds!!!!! you all had a choice to draft however you wanted and you proceded. And now some of you want to change it???

I admit completely that there was a mis-understanding between the rules that were posted and the rules we started the draft under (despite my previous post) But this issue was raised and clarified and we proceeded.
I am very sorry, but this totally screws me. and is very, very harsh and unfair to me. But this is not a small omission or a minor oversite. it is a sweeping and grand change with unlimited ramifications of scope. It is not cool to do just because it spices things up or whatever.


just because you can achieve your majority does not make it fair.
this issue was brought to the floor and voted on almost a week ago. i am surely not the best politician here but that does not make what you are doing right. you guys decide what are going to do and let me know.

I will not be able to get online again until tomorrow.

[cirills]

In honor of Smokey's plea, AND because there is much truth in what he says[size=15:460f0b8f48] I will now change my vote on Proposal #2 to [b:460f0b8f48]"NO"[/b:460f0b8f48] and I urge at least a few more to do the same[/size:460f0b8f48] -- [i:460f0b8f48][b:460f0b8f48]especially those who said they didn't care one way or the other.[/b:460f0b8f48][/i:460f0b8f48]

If we STARTED one way (WHETHER or not something else was said BEFORE we began) we should FINISH that way!

So, [b:460f0b8f48]Proposal #2[/b:460f0b8f48] now stands at:

[b:460f0b8f48]7 YES
3 NO
2 outstanding[/b:460f0b8f48]

Let's do what's right here.

[kaviksdad]

This is just the type of thing I wished to avoid - no matter what you do you can't please everyone.

First off, The current tallys are:

Proposal No. 1 -- 0 yes, 9 No (proposal fails)

Proposal No. 2 -- 7 yes, 3 No

Secondly, I can understand why Smokey is so opposed to changing the rules, and he has a legitimate right to be. Smokey went out of his way to confirm what the rules were and then drafted accordingly. Then from out of the blue comes a rule change that will impact his draft strategy. I too would be upset at what has happened. It looks a lot like being punished without having done anything wrong.

I made the proposals primarily because of the expressed concerns about owners writing off this first season in order to be better prepared for the 2008 cards. I also took into account my original intention of having all players with MLB experience eligible for the draft.

Even though there is nothing in the rules to prevent an owner from drafting for the future, I had assumed that the rest of you would adopt a draft strategy similar to my own: play to win now, but also draft for tomorrow. Most owners have done this - total salary amounts on each team generally run from 80 to 100 million at this point - except for a few teams which took a different approach.

Smokey's team in particular is only 39 million, the lowest in the league. While there is nothing in the rules against this, it did help set off the concerns of other owners. As we all know, a team that has substantially less salary than the rest is at a distinct disadvantage when playing against the rest of the league, and the odds are that that team will finish at the bottom of the standings. In this league that means a very high draft position in the following season's free agent draft. And since all spring free agent drafts are based on an owners cumulative records of all seasons played, the effect may be felt, albeit to a lesser degree, in each successive spring.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything. No one is cheating. No one is practicing bad sportsmanship. I have no problems ethically with any one's actions. My decision to bring up these proposals was in no way meant as a means to punish any one owner. What I was trying to do was close a loophole that was being exploited while there was still time to salvage this first season. And I did it the only way that I felt was open to me - to leave it to the rest of you to decide.

If I've offended anyone I apologize. If Smokey, or any other owner, feels I have inappropriately put the spotlight on them I apologize for that as well. I have the utmost respect for each of you (even Dr. Tax, who seems to be a "keeper" in the keeper league arena). I hope that we can all finish this draft and get to playing the game. If anyone feels slighted and wants out now is the time to say so. But know this - I have played in various leagues with all of you for years now, and would like to continue to do so.

[Sykes25]

Nice post KD. Ultimately, we shoudl only be live drafting players with current SOM cards until some type of "supplimental" or "prospect" draft is done on the boards. I don't want to leave pick 32 empty so I can take Okajima. I'd rather be forced to grab him during a sup or prospect draft. It only makes logistical sense.

Proposal 2 speaks to this and makes everybody able to draft for this year in any way they want without interrupting the flow and spirit of what [b:c8748a14bb]I[/b:c8748a14bb] understood the rules to be.

[kaviksdad]

[quote:b1237b3d32]And I did it the only way that I felt was open to me - to leave it to the rest of you to decide. [/quote:b1237b3d32]

And because I left it open to the rest of you, I am also changing my vote to Abstain.

So the tally now reads:

Yes votes - 6
No votes - 3
1 abstention

2 votes remain to be cast - Ninersphan and AFDickie.

[Ninersphan]

I'm torn here.

I'll be honest, I really don't care either way. In my haste to join the league, (I LOVE these max cap keeper leagues) I glanced through the rules and assumed they were pretty much like the others I was in. I mistakinly assumed, for about 15 rounds, that we'd be able to draft guys that are playing currently but don't have cards now in the prospect draft. I even drafted at certian positions with this in mind.

Skip to a couple of days ago and I find out [b:5646d991b1]I[/b:5646d991b1] (please note that) was incorrect, my bad. [b:5646d991b1]I[/b:5646d991b1] now have to live with that mistake and hope for the best in future drafts. [b:5646d991b1]I[/b:5646d991b1] didn't read the rules completely, [b:5646d991b1]I[/b:5646d991b1] didn't take the time to realize how they would impact what [b:5646d991b1]I[/b:5646d991b1] thought was a good strategy all my fault.

All of this is my way of working out, that I guess I need to agree with Smokey. [b:5646d991b1]He[/b:5646d991b1] did take the time to suss out the rules and even asked for a clarification [b:5646d991b1]before[/b:5646d991b1] we were to far into the draft, to change things now would be grossly unfair.
I see qk's point that he had an earlier version of the rules, but the rules we are using were posted at the head of this thread, and then a clarification was asked for shortly after the draft started. IMHO it was qk's responsibility to make sure he knew what the rules were before we were this far along, especially given that a clarification was asked for much earlier.

So the tally now reads:

Yes votes - 6
No votes - 4
1 abstention

1 vote remain to be cast - AFDickie.

Sorry it took so long, but I was really hoping you guys would settle this without the need of my vote.

P.S. Smokey, does this mean you'll trade me Milledge and Pedroia now :wink: :D :wink:

[Sykes25]

Ok. I am AFK all day tomorrow at an off-site for work. I'll have enough proxies to carry me well past round 30. Should you blow through my proxies, please skip me without hesitation.

[cirills]

I also have at least 20 proxies loaded.

I don't know how limited my on-line capability will be tomorrow.

[qksilver69]

I never said it wasn't my responsibility to read the revised rules KD posted. Of course it was. But I'm also within my rights to ask for a change, because this league is NOT the league I thought I was joining. If you vote it down, so be it, I'll live.

However, If 4 of you honestly think that this structure is good for competition, I think you're in for a rude awakening. Or maybe you'll be doing cartwheels when Smokey's team struggles to win 60 games in season 1, virtually guaranteeing that division both a div winner & a wildcard. :roll:

Please understand - I am not faulting Smokey for choosing this strategy - it is a *SMART* strategy because the FA draft overwhemingly rewards the last place team. However I do think that because this year's rookies are included in the FA draft and not a prospect draft, it becomes an unfair advantage that works against the spirit of competition that I think these keeper leagues should strive for.