Archive of SportingNews.com's old SOM Baseball forum

First issues are as follows:

1) There are 2 votes to nuke the Phillies. There are 2 +1 more possible votes possible. 3 votes to nuke is my goal. Anyone wish to join the Nuke Philly crowd.

3 VOTES IN - PHILLIES ARE OUT.

2) If Yes on NUKE PHILLY then do we go with 12 Franchises or replace with the Reds. The Reds were replaced by the Phillies. 2 members wanted them in as 1 of 13 with draft to determine whose out but 2 members wanted them out.

Vote for 12 teams in with Phillies out and not replaced. 3 VOTES - NEW
Vote for 13 teams with Phillies replaced by REDS.

REDS PROJ ROSTER-

Big change would be Morgan off of Giants and Robinson off Cleveland and Bell off Pirates.

McCormick
Morgan
Concepcion
Rose
Robinson
Bell / Geronimo/ S. Crawford -not on Tigers roster as of now
Post
Bench
Klu

Walters
Seaver
Derringer
Marquard off Giants or Nolan
Beggs
Carroll
A. Worthington

4. Is the goal of the committee in making adjustments to Franchises using players from other Franchises to balance the league or to represent the Franchise taking into account surplus at a given position which can be used to balance the weaker franchise. NOT A GUIDELINE BUT COMMITTEE CLOSE ENOUGH

My vote is to keep it at 12 teams for three seasons, then reassess.

I'm for Nuking the Phillies and for keeping the non pitching- I-only-have-two-good-players- Reds on the shelf.

Why 12? It will make it clear as to which franchises get which players. Most teams are unsure of who'll they get untill the 12th team is picked. This could have huge effect on the Cards, Giants, Braves, White Sox, Indians.
Some franchises are pretty much set and these teams benifit from a muddying of th water that the option of 13 franchises present

Why Nuke the Phillies? It makes the other teams stronger (much stronger). Also, I think their chances are poor, when compared to the White Sox

The Reds are just awful- too bad, 'cause I love the Franchise, but Klu, Morgan, Robinson and Seaver land with other teams

Walters and Rose can watch it on TV

I vote for 12 teams in with Phillies out and not replaced. I'm in either way though.

My goal with the rosters is that they should be a ballance of
A. the Franchises they are identified with

B. make all the franchises competitive

C. I'd also add that I see no reason to have a 7m+ player sitting on the sidelines just because he's not primarily associated with a Franchise he played for.

With regard to A. I think Jack Clark is more of a Giant than a Cardinal, I also think Frisch and Hornsby are more Cardinals than Giants and that Mize is mre of a Cardinal than a Yank or Giant. I think Jackson is more of an Indian than a White Sock; I could go on and on, as I'm sure we all could on this point.
(with one addition. To me, Frank Robinson is an Indian. I know he hardly played for them, but when I was 10 y.o, he was on the Indians, plus he was a player manager And the only star on a team which was unfamiliar to me- so, to me,he's an Indian)

However,

With regard to B. I think if placing a player on another team (even if he's more associated with another) makes the league more competitive, while not compromising the team he's from, then it should be done.
Clark and Frisch are good examples of this. So far, we have had Clark on the Cards and Frisch on the Giants. Why? 'cause the Ginats needed a 2nd baseman and the Cards didn't, maenwhile, the Cards needed some hitting.

I posted on this on the other thread, but I'll repeat it here. Crushing the Phillies allows the Cards to get Pete. SO they don't need the hitting as much. Meanwhile, Morgan becomes available to SF, releasing the need for Frisch, who can ro to his rightful home in StL, while Clark goes to his rightful home in SF/NY. This also allows Taylor to go to Chicago where he belongs (he was on the Cards to help their average pitching staff).

Moreoever, all these changes fit the personalities of the Cubs, Cards and Gaints better. The Cubs retain their deep starting pitching, but not so deep as to run over everyone. The Cards get a more pitching/fileding type team, and the Giants get a more high walks/good pop team.

All of which brings me to the White SoX and 'C'

Send Zachary to the Braves/Brewers, there are other good SP options for the Dodgers, not so much the Braves/Brewers

C. I'd also add that I see no reason to have a 7m+ player sitting on the sidelines just because he's not primarily associated with a Franchise he played for.

I think this idea should be used with restraint, but I see no reason why we shouldn't add some "cup of coffee" guys to Rosters already loaded with Franchise greats.

An extreme case in point is the White SOx.

Aside from the positions of Catcher, SS and 2nd B; the SoX haven't been known for their continuity in line-ups.
So, I think a White Sox line-up with lots of guys who only played a short time with the franchise is in keping with the personality of the club-

Here's my rough draft I sent to Bob;
Totsky 5.14(the tribe gets J. Jackson, the SoX get Trotsky/ C. Jones?)
Collins, 7.55
Aparicio, 3.58
Dykes, 6.11
Simmons, 10.34
Lemon 4.56/
Doby 5.65
C. Jones ( a reach, but why waste him?) 7.19
Fisk (Red SOx have Howard)
Or
Downing 4.87/
Loller, 3.94
Luzinski/ 5.22
Allen, 5.52

Ciocotte, 11.14
Wynn, 8.63
Koosman, 8.62
Williams, 8.58
Seaver, 6.85
Gossage, 3.34
Lamp, 2.33
Howell, 2.05

Amost all these guys meet the 440/100/50 requirement- yet most made their names with other franchises.

Without a doubt, the biggest reach is Cleon Jones. He only played for 12 games with them. But why leave him on the sidelines, escpecially if it makes their club more ballanced and competitive.
He's a great player, but not a dominator (it's not like putting Ruth, Waner or Hornsby on the Braves) and having him on the SoX is totally in the spirit of the way that franchise patches together line-ups.

Plus why let him languish on the sidelines?

Even better, it allows the SoX to part with Jackson to help ease the Eight hundred and eleven roster hits they've taken to help out other franchises (Trotsky, Doby, Averill, Wynn, Hess, Cy Young, Eckersly)

[b:f72dfe58ab]In short, all of these changes make me want to play each of these franchises more- it makes the game more fun- alot more fun , I think and still holds to the spirit of what we are trying to do.[/b:f72dfe58ab]

The Dodgers need him bad

and

check out the Braves Brewers

1b-Sisler, 10.90

2b- Scheon, 5.15
SS- Yount, 10.81
3b- Mathews, 6.36
Royster, 2.33
Lf-Murphy, 6.96
Cf- Thomas, 6.69
Rf- Aaron, 9.03
C- Lombardi, 5.56

DH- Cooper, 6.98

SP1-Young, 9.49

SP2- Hess, 9.01
SP3-Short, 8.51
SP4-Wills, 7.66
SP5-Spahn, 6.23
RP1- Bedrosian, 3.80
RP2- Garber, 2.95
RP3- Fingers, 2.69
RP4- McMahon, 3.04


He'd be their 5th starter.

Here's my rough draft I sent to Bob;
Totsky 5.14(the tribe gets J. Jackson, the SoX get Trotsky/ C. Jones?)
[color=red:7d7d15dc2d]fluffy, where do you have Kluszewki?[/color:7d7d15dc2d]
Collins, 7.55
Aparicio, 3.58
Dykes, 6.11
Simmons, 10.34
Lemon 4.56/
Doby 5.65
C. Jones ( a reach, but why waste him?) 7.19
Fisk (Red SOx have Howard)
Or
Downing 4.87/
Loller, 3.94
Luzinski/ 5.22
Allen, 5.52

Ciocotte, 11.14
Wynn, 8.63
Koosman, 8.62
Williams, 8.58
Seaver, 6.85
Gossage, 3.34 [color=red:7d7d15dc2d]don't forget about Gene Nelson and Consuegra as options here; was thinking Goose on Modern Yanks[/color:7d7d15dc2d]
Lamp, 2.33
Howell, 2.05

Amost all these guys meet the 440/100/50 requirement- yet most made their names with other franchises.

Without a doubt, the biggest reach is Cleon Jones. He only played for 12 games with them. But why leave him on the sidelines, escpecially if it makes their club more ballanced and competitive. [color=red:7d7d15dc2d]agree with Cleon here if Shoeless goes[/color:7d7d15dc2d]He's a great player, but not a dominator (it's not like putting Ruth, Waner or Hornsby on the Braves) and having him on the SoX is totally in the spirit of the way that franchise patches together line-ups.

Plus why let him languish on the sidelines?

Even better, it allows the SoX to part with Jackson to help ease the Eight hundred and eleven roster hits they've taken to help out other franchises (Trotsky, Doby, Averill, Wynn, Hess, Cy Young, Eckersly)

The Dodgers need him bad

and

check out the Braves Brewers

1b-Sisler, 10.90

2b- Scheon, 5.15
SS- Yount, 10.81
3b- Mathews, 6.36
Royster, 2.33
Lf-Murphy, 6.96
Cf- Thomas, 6.69
Rf- Aaron, 9.03
C- Lombardi, 5.56

DH- Cooper, 6.98

SP1-Young, 9.49

SP2- Hess, 9.01 [color=red:44b103af3a]had him with Indians earlier[/color:44b103af3a]
SP3-Short, 8.51 [color=red:44b103af3a]didn't read the Philly nuke until a few minutes ago[/color:44b103af3a]
SP4-Willis, 7.66
SP5-Spahn, 6.23
RP1- Bedrosian, 3.80
RP2- Garber, 2.95
RP3- Fingers, 2.69
RP4- McMahon, 3.04

All the rosters posted will be reviewed by Bob and the rest of the committee.

I've posted my arguements ad naseum and it would probably be best if I just stepped back and let the four of you debate them. (check the other thread for my other rough draft rosters)

I'll calrify and vote when needed, but I think it's time for me to shut up and let the rest of you guys say your piece.