Gentlmen- We have an official RAT in the tour!

[Woody5]

Long story as short as possible:

Event 5 Leage 1- Was a live draft AL only league. One of our managers (cminton or Todd) made a mistake and had Felipe Lopez as his 3B for 81 games. The league was alerted and the general feeling was that cminton was a well respected member of the community and after an appology and a few transactions the problem was fixed. Most of us were looking to move on and give the benefit of the doubt.

"gstains" as his board name goes had a huge issue with this. After teepak made his official ruling to make corrections and move on, this guy decides it's not good enough and picks up Tony Clark and Miguel Cabrera to prove a point. remember it's an AL only league. After a few nice messages and one not so nice one, he gets so pissed and decided he is done with the league. So tonight he droped his entire roster and picked up all $ .50 million players.


I am calling for a removal of gstains from the tour. His response was completely out of controll. "cminton" is in 1st place in his division with "gstains" in the same division. I don't however think lopez is the main reason why.

I also call on all members of the community to watch out if you are in a leage with this guy. He obviously takes things a little too seriously and can't handle himself.

[hk mossy]

No kidding. I have not been to the league yet, but they really irritates me. I have been battling since day 1, b/c in the same draft I messed up and picked Geoff Jenkins and Todd Jones with 4th and 6th round picks and did not realize until we were in round 11. I had to replace them with Carlos Silva and Armando Benitez. I have been behind from the get go and did not bail on this league.

This really irks me.

[gstanis]

This is an issue on principle. This is an AL only league. He had two players that were NL players for 81 games. Was this guy a rookie at this? NO way. He has over 2200 points to his name. As they say in Texas, this was not his first rodeo.

[u:0ecba3dbd6][b:0ecba3dbd6]It is each players responsibility to police their own teams.[/b:0ecba3dbd6][/u:0ecba3dbd6] I am sorry, but a guy that plays this game that much to earn over 2200 points knows these players better than most. One of the guys was hitting over 300 and was on pace for almost 100 RBI and in an AL only league where the talent is watered down a 3.75 million dollar player is like have a 5 million dollar player.

During the live draft I pick NL players by mistake but quickly dropped them and corrected my team. It was my responsibility to the league. I do not buy for one second that a guy who has over 2200 points doesn't look at his team that closely and notices it.

If somebody in our league didn't stumble upon it he would still have the two players. [u:0ecba3dbd6][b:0ecba3dbd6]I entered an AL ONLY LEAGUE, not an AL ONLY except for one team who can have 2 guys for over 81 games. [/b:0ecba3dbd6][/u:0ecba3dbd6]

I offered solutions all week. If it was me I would have bucked up the league fees and started over using the same rosters at the time of the infraction or I would have removed my team from contention for the fairness of the league. I have played this game since it started a few years ago. I have filled in as an extra throughout this series so other can have a shot to play.

[u:0ecba3dbd6][b:0ecba3dbd6]This comes down to somebody violated the rules in a section of the tournament that had restrictions on players. It was not for 3 or 6 games which we all could overlook but for 81 games????????? [/b:0ecba3dbd6][/u:0ecba3dbd6]I did not break any rules at all. The two NL players I picked up in protest were dropped before a game was even played. I strongly feel that after 81 games it can't be just drop the player and move on. As far as I am concerned my $25 was wasted. Be pissed at me all you want. I did not violate any rules within the competition like others. You may not agree with me on my decision and I respect that but it is my $25 to run my team as I chose and if you are not going to punish the guy who cheated then get off my back about it.

[gstanis]

The 2200 point guy has probably used the same stadium each event. Hey if he gets caught we'll just make him change stadiums. It's OK, he's our buddy.

[cminton]

During the draft, many of us commented that it was a difficult theme because neither TSN nor Penn's draft site allow you to limit the player pool to AL or NL only. Many of us made mistakes and drafted NL players. When it was noticed, we dropped them. None of us noticed when I drafted Lopez. And, no, I do not know the cards or the players that well. I did not know who Lopez was, much less what league he was in. I was looking for a DH to hit RHP's and he fit the bill. I drafted him in the 15th round. In addition, in the autodraft for the remaining eight players, HAL gave me Gosling. Gosling is a $0.50MM RP with a 1.86 WHIP. (If I was going to cheat, there are a few better RP's out there.) So really, this is about Lopez, not two players. I do not pay that much attention to my teams. I set my rotation and lineups and put them on autopilot. I usually have between 3-10 teams going at a time. No, I had no idea I had an NL player on my roster.

Now my run differential is 475-390. Lopez is my DH against RHP and even if he fielded, his 4 at 2B, 3B, and SS would not help my pitchers ERA's. Therefore, the 390 RA would not have changed. Yes, it helped having Lopez batting 7th against RHP, but how many runs would I have lost? How would it have changed my 52-32 record? Maybe my record against gstanis has more to do with the fact that he spent only $63MM and I spent $75MM (without Lopez).

That being said, when it was pointed out to me, I took complete responsibility and we asked teepack for a ruling. There are two issues here. (1) What do we do about my record and possible playoff points in this league? (2) What do we do about the impact it may have had on the other teams in this league? For (1), I recommended that I get zero points for this event and that this be the event that is dropped. (I will be participating in every event.) For (2), I have no idea and left it to teepack. Teepack responded that we do not really have a rule for handling this and that I should simply drop the NL players and the league should continue.

While other league members may not have been completely happy about the situation, all except one agreed to move on.

[Woody5]

gstains- your childish reaction is unacceptable. What you did is even worse than cminton. You are blackballed as far as I'm concerned.

[gstanis]

Lopez beat me twice in week #1 alone without looking further. He was written up for his part in the summary of a close game and he hit a 2 run HR in the inning that decided a two run game later in the week.

81 games. The guy was on pace to get 500 ab's

It is noble of you to offer to take no playoff points but what about the points and playoff spots you are costing other people. See woody wasn't pissed because you are not in his division and he could still win his division or get the wild card. With you 20 games over 500 you will beat kun tai enough to keep him close should woody slip. He is pissed at me because with my team not as strong and if his team slides chances are the wild card will come out of the west.

I did not break any rules. This is a dead issue at this point. We will agree to disagree. My 5 year record of conduct in this community will stand up to anyone else's. I am pissed because 81 games is not 3 games and it makes a difference. Rules are rules pal. If you break them you should be willing to pay the price.

[The Turtle]

As a nonmember of the tour (due to fiancial restrictions this year) and a long standing member of the community, and someone who has played in the tour in previous years I think the main failure here was in Teepack's decison (sorry teepack) it was 81 games and Lopez is a good NL/AL only player and using him did add a lot of cminton's team , I guarantee that. cminton should have been forced to lose lopez for a .5 player only or something that would hurt him badly, since he still might win the division this was a HUGE mistake not oops I run a lot of leagues sorry! In four years of playing I know I have never made a mistake like this, mistakes yes but correctable ones and never one that even went one game.

Also the tour failed here becasue league commisoners should have used the exclude player feature before the draft, in a recent NL draft the commish did this with little to no problem and we drafted with only NL players.

However, gstains should not have dropped his team that was not fair either, I think him raising a little more fuss on this board might have been better in his interest.

At this point there is no solution as I see it, however, and the league is no ruined due to poor planning execution and by one manager who needs to pay more attention (really how can you not know who the players are do you even keep up with baseball? or how about paying for your team ahead of time so you can bother to look at the cards while you draft so you know what freaking teams they play for) and one chilidsh acting manager who should not have done what he did.

I am sorry this happened. But gstains is not entirely to blame and should not be blackballed. He needs to repick up his palyers as much as he can and both players need to recieve 0 points for this event. I really feel for the other 2 managers in the divison.

[cummings2]

I am the manager in the middle of the two (cminton is in 1st place and gstanis in 3rd).

Personally I wish cooler heads had prevailed, in my experience both cminton and gstanis are cool guys always good to have in leagues. I am really surprised by the way this whole thing has turned.

I don't have much time to get into it other that to say that I am not upset in any way for the F. Lopez 81 games. It [b:a5fdb5c112]should[/b:a5fdb5c112] be mentioned that the player that replaced Lopez [u:a5fdb5c112]is[/u:a5fdb5c112] a .50 scrubbie and that since the Lopez drop cminton's team is 6-3 so to argue that Lopez made that big a difference will only be answered through the final record.

I do not agree with trashing a team to make a point but gsatnis has always been a cool guy and a tough competitor.

One last thing, as a player very directly affected by this, on the one hand the first place team played with a inelligble player for the first half of the season and in the second half the third place team trashes the roster I can only say that it is a shame. It is very likely that cminton will win the division because he has a very good team, and IMO gstanis had an equally good team -very tough looking at the start of the season...but through a series of 12 or 15 trades -fairly bad trades for him IMO- he destroyed his team waaaay before this incident. So, there are many elements factoring into this.

Was it a mistake that F. Lopez was drafted? Yes. We all bear some responsibility and a little understanding and forgiving goes a long way.

Is it wrong to implode a team? Yes. But as I said before a little understanding and forgiving goes a long way.

[ROBERTVOZZA]

I believe that everyone has validly stated their cases and rebuttals with due respect. And I believe The Turtle made some very good points as to how to resolve the situation.

With everyone's points respectfully stated and well taken. I believe everyone makes mistakes. And when competition is as intense as this can be at times, we go a little overboard.

Yes, it was negligent ok cm. to carry an NL player that long and altho I am a stickler for rules - which should be for everyone, I believe that Gst's overreacted. But there is still enuf time to smooth over any bad feelings and not create any enemies through harsh words or anyone being blackballed here.

Maybe admission of a mistake, apologies - along with each players explanation of their actions or overreactions and penalties for each player - as outlined by The Turtle - with necessary and immediate personnel changes by Gst's team to maintain at least a respectful balance for the sake of the other players in the league - who seem to have acted with understanding and tolerance concerning this uncomfortable situation - that by doing the right thing ASAP could at least salvage the season for everyone else and keep peace without inflaming the entire community and leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouth for awhile.

I have been involved on both sides of a few uncomfortable situations here at SOM online and altho a little embarassing and uncomfortable in the moment, with a little effort, time heals these sort of things and everyone can sleep better in their REAL LIVES without anyone's reputations being ruined over a game.

So hopefully cooler heads will prevail and everything will be worked out.

Just some comments from the peanut gallery, fellas. :wink: Robvoz