[quote:0ec47b166b="YountFan"]Ahhh...the Snake. The man was a real weapon.[/quote:0ec47b166b]
Indeed... he was every bit as good as Bradshaw, Staubach and Tarkenton.
Hall of Fame 2006: Results Really In! Sutter Really Wins!
Re: The Snake
by nycalderon » Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:20 pm
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by nycalderon » Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:23 pm
[quote:5988b858e9="Minoso Express"] Dawson has always been borderline for me.[/quote:5988b858e9]
Dawson was a real nice player who is helped by the fact that in the first half of his career he was a superb outfielder. I consider him borderline as well... In fact Raines, to me, is a better HoF candidate.
Dawson was a real nice player who is helped by the fact that in the first half of his career he was a superb outfielder. I consider him borderline as well... In fact Raines, to me, is a better HoF candidate.
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by Jimmy_C » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:47 pm
[quote:7e7a67d4f2]Dawson has always been borderline for me.[/quote:7e7a67d4f2]
Dawson had a rare blend of power (439 hr's) and speed (314 stolen bases). He had 2,774 career hits and 1,591 RBI's. He was NL MVP in 1987 and finished 2nd two other times. He won eight Gold Gloves in the outfield and was an 8 time All-Star. His only knock is a .279 career BA.
Dawson had a rare blend of power (439 hr's) and speed (314 stolen bases). He had 2,774 career hits and 1,591 RBI's. He was NL MVP in 1987 and finished 2nd two other times. He won eight Gold Gloves in the outfield and was an 8 time All-Star. His only knock is a .279 career BA.
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by Outta Leftfield » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:40 pm
OK, assuming I've counted this right, we've had 15 ballots so far. Listing just those who recieved at least one vote, and assuming I've counted right, the balloting so far has been:
Blyleven 9
Clark 4
Dawson 9
Garvey 1
Gossage 11
Hershiser 5
John 4
Mattingly 11
Morris 4
Murphy 5
Parker 5
Rice 11
Smith 5
Sutter 10
Trammell 8
Lots of interesting stuff here. For one thing, nobody has quite enough votes for the Hall. Gossage, Mattingly, and Rice all have 11 of 15, but that's .733% and you need .75. That 3/4s is a tough standard! Also, a couple of voters mentioned only one or two players. In effect, that virtually dooms anyone not on their card to missing the cut. I wonder how often those one or two vote cards happen in real life--it might explain why Willie Mays wasn't unanimous. Did the voters really want to doom the others--or just send a really emphatic vote for those they favor? With a .75% standard, candidates can't afford to be on the losing end of too many such "short ballots," and this may explain why some of our favorite players languish year after year. Finally, like Sandberg last year, some of "short ballot" voters get around to noticing these guys and sending them a belated vote--is that what finally gets them into the Hall?
Other players attracting significant support are Sutter (10 votes/.667); Dawson and Blyleven (9/ .600); and Trammell (8/ .533)--but they've got a ways to go.
Other points of interest. Two managers mentioned Belle as deserving to be in the Hall, but nobody actually voted for him. :lol: :?: :?:
And Tim Raines didn't retire until 2002 and won't be eligible for two years. I hope he gets in. When, if ever, did Rickey officially retire?
Blyleven 9
Clark 4
Dawson 9
Garvey 1
Gossage 11
Hershiser 5
John 4
Mattingly 11
Morris 4
Murphy 5
Parker 5
Rice 11
Smith 5
Sutter 10
Trammell 8
Lots of interesting stuff here. For one thing, nobody has quite enough votes for the Hall. Gossage, Mattingly, and Rice all have 11 of 15, but that's .733% and you need .75. That 3/4s is a tough standard! Also, a couple of voters mentioned only one or two players. In effect, that virtually dooms anyone not on their card to missing the cut. I wonder how often those one or two vote cards happen in real life--it might explain why Willie Mays wasn't unanimous. Did the voters really want to doom the others--or just send a really emphatic vote for those they favor? With a .75% standard, candidates can't afford to be on the losing end of too many such "short ballots," and this may explain why some of our favorite players languish year after year. Finally, like Sandberg last year, some of "short ballot" voters get around to noticing these guys and sending them a belated vote--is that what finally gets them into the Hall?
Other players attracting significant support are Sutter (10 votes/.667); Dawson and Blyleven (9/ .600); and Trammell (8/ .533)--but they've got a ways to go.
Other points of interest. Two managers mentioned Belle as deserving to be in the Hall, but nobody actually voted for him. :lol: :?: :?:
And Tim Raines didn't retire until 2002 and won't be eligible for two years. I hope he gets in. When, if ever, did Rickey officially retire?
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by Jimmy_C » Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:34 am
[quote:1201bcd730]When, if ever, did Rickey officially retire?[/quote:1201bcd730]
Ricky will be on the ballot in 2009. He is a cinch 1st ballot selection. Others on the 2009 ballot will include Mark Grace, Matt Williams, Dean Palmer, and Dan Plesac.
Ricky will be on the ballot in 2009. He is a cinch 1st ballot selection. Others on the 2009 ballot will include Mark Grace, Matt Williams, Dean Palmer, and Dan Plesac.
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by Moodywoody » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:31 am
I think only Trammel and Sutter deserve to even be considered for the Hall. He and Yount were the best shortstops of their era, and Sutter not only was the best reliever of his era, but possibly one of the greatest of all time. He also got incredible stats with a pretty mediocre bunch of Chicago Cubs teams. The only drawback on Sutter was his longevity. He wasn't great for a long period of time, but during that window of greatness, he was awesome.
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by baracus68 » Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:01 pm
My two cents:
--Jim Rice (Question: Who had twice as many 100-RBI seasons as Mickey Mantle? Answer: Jim Rice)
--Alan Trammel (better than future shoo-in Derek Jeter, says I, but then again I loathe Derek Jeter)
--Bruce Sutter (Made hitters look they'd just sniffed a bag full of airplane glue in the on-deck circle.)
--Jack Morris (Best big game starter of his era. He should get 50 percent of the votes for the 1991 10-inning game 7 shutout alone.)
--Goose Gossage (As a Red Sox fan whose childhood ended at the exact moment when Gossage got Yaz to pop out to Nettles in the '78 playoff game, it pains me to put the Goose on the list, but he was SCARY.)
--Don Mattinngly (He didn't do it for that long, but in his prime he was the best hitter I ever saw. If Wade Boggs could have lined a screaming shot into the center field bleachers every couple games he would have been as good as Don Mattingly--and, just to reiterate what is probably obvious by now, this is coming from someone who hates the Yankees.)
When Tim Raines is eligible, I hope people remember he was Jimmy Foxx/Hank Greenberg to Rickey's Lou Gehrig in the golden age of the great leadoff man.
--Jim Rice (Question: Who had twice as many 100-RBI seasons as Mickey Mantle? Answer: Jim Rice)
--Alan Trammel (better than future shoo-in Derek Jeter, says I, but then again I loathe Derek Jeter)
--Bruce Sutter (Made hitters look they'd just sniffed a bag full of airplane glue in the on-deck circle.)
--Jack Morris (Best big game starter of his era. He should get 50 percent of the votes for the 1991 10-inning game 7 shutout alone.)
--Goose Gossage (As a Red Sox fan whose childhood ended at the exact moment when Gossage got Yaz to pop out to Nettles in the '78 playoff game, it pains me to put the Goose on the list, but he was SCARY.)
--Don Mattinngly (He didn't do it for that long, but in his prime he was the best hitter I ever saw. If Wade Boggs could have lined a screaming shot into the center field bleachers every couple games he would have been as good as Don Mattingly--and, just to reiterate what is probably obvious by now, this is coming from someone who hates the Yankees.)
When Tim Raines is eligible, I hope people remember he was Jimmy Foxx/Hank Greenberg to Rickey's Lou Gehrig in the golden age of the great leadoff man.
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by Minoso Express » Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:57 pm
Nycalderon-
Agree absolutely with you about Raines, Blyleven and Belle-- though again, you're right. He's not a first-ballot guy.
OuttaLeftField--
Darn. I meant to put Belle on my HOF list and hereby do so.
Agree absolutely with you about Raines, Blyleven and Belle-- though again, you're right. He's not a first-ballot guy.
OuttaLeftField--
Darn. I meant to put Belle on my HOF list and hereby do so.
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