What Barry Bonds Should Do After #754 (o/t)

[STEPHENANDERSON 2]

Ummm...... what does this have to do with Strat-o-Matic :roll:

[CHARLESBELL]

[quote:4bada708a2="Dr. Brian"]
[quote:4bada708a2]Pete Rose does not have an asterisk after his career hits title. [/quote:4bada708a2]

Apples and Oranges. Pete Rose does have an asterisk on his name ... but only when you look at his managerial record. His hit total was not chemically enhanced. Pete Rose* the manager is very different than Pete Rose the hitter.[/quote:4bada708a2]

Some have said that Bonds record won't count even if the substances he used weren't banned by baseball, because they were used or acquired illegally.

My point about Rose was specific to the issue of illegal or criminal acts only.

[CHARLESBELL]

[quote:8764d28651="doctor_tax1"]Ummm...... what does this have to do with Strat-o-Matic :roll:[/quote:8764d28651]

Lol, we should take this to the Bullpen. It's lonely over there!

[CHARLESBELL]

Hiya C2! Looks like we will be meeting up again in the LOTO this year. Man, we have a tough field!

[CATom]

to the original question;

HIT 46 more to become the first player to ever hit 800 :lol: :shock:

Tom.

[teamnasty]

With due respect to Ken Griffey Jr., a first ballot hall of famer if I ever saw one, the guy's prime years didn't hold a candle to Bonds' performance at the same time, all of which is considered pre-roid by overwhelming consensus. The gap in on-base percentage alone is large. Dont get me wrong, Griffey was a stud, Bonds was flat out better when personality is removed from the equation. To criticize Bonds doesn't make one a racist. But to deny that race is a part of the equation in the way Bonds is perceived and evaluated is equally unreasonable and naive.

[Terry101]

I guess if you are white and dislike Bonds race is an issue. If you are black and dislike MsGwire, are you a racist?

What if Bonds is the only African American baseball player you dislike. still racist? Agree wholeheartedly with Keyzick.

Also, if you murder someone and don't get caught, you are not breaking the law?

Sorry what I really enjoy is that this forum is about Strat, not politics or anything else. Apologize. I'll cruise the boards looking for Strat talk.

[teamnasty]

Ridiculous generalizations, not one of which I said.

[Terry101]

I don't want to get into an argument. I'm sure no one wants to read our differences. First someone else(socalchiro) said that if you were going over the speed limit and were not caught you were not breaking the law. That was what I was referring to in that instance.

What you said is "Singly out Bonds is cowardly, naive, selective, and in many cases,yes I'm saying it, racist." You said it. No one else. You accused people of "selectively" singling out Bonds because he is African American. In another post you say the opposite- that critizing Bonds does not make you racist. Then in the next sentence you insinuate that people evaluate Bonds by putting race into the equation. " to deny that race is part of the equation in the way Bonds is preceived and evaluated is equally unreasonable and naive."

You then compare "ole country boy" (read white) Perry with- in your words with -"African American" Bonds.

Then you call McGwire the "golden" (read white) American hero.

Then you say Ruth (white) never had to face African American pitchers Page and Gibson.

I don't see any racism in any one's opinion about Bonds on these boards. There may be racism -- but I don't see it vs Bonds.

Fact: It is near impossible to critizize Bonds without someone (as Keyzick pointed out) calling out racism. That is why I made the generalization about if a black person accused McGwire of whatever it would not mean that person is racist. Why wouldn't the reverse be true?

I truly respect your opinions. In fact, I agree that Bonds is one the best players ever to play the game- a sure HOF even if would have never roided, but I could not disagree more about the racism part. My sons, for example idolized both McGwire and Bonds. After it became obvious that both used illegal substances, my sons lost resprect for both players-equally and I'm sure people would be making life miserable right now for McGwire if he was chasing the record. The issue is cheating, not color.

[teamnasty]

terry, you dont "want to get into an argument or have others read our differences" then proceed to author another lengthy email doing just that. Which is fine because I unlike you welcome the debate. Angry, outspoken black men arent given the same rope in our society as "elegant, quiet" black men. McGwire was as surly as Bonds is, but was largely given a pass by the mainstream media, another fact. Mantle's rookie card commands a much higher price than Mays' does, even though Mays had the longer, better career. What accounts for this? We have come very far on race, but not to the point of all of us being actually colorblind. Honest, nonracist people can find fault with Bonds, but read the hate mail he's getting before you assume that's the entirety of the criticism. And we do look fondly upon Gaylord Perry's "cheating" and frown upon Bonds and its fair game to ask why. And finally its fair to call into question this assumption that steroids, illegal by society's rules but not baseball's at the time, really provides any meaninful advantage at all regardless of their legality. Bonds supposedly missed much of the 1999 season because he overdeveloped and tore muscles as a result of roid use. It takes away even if it gives. His greatness as a player remains unchallenged by any serious analysis. His smallness as a person is really a separate question altogether, but to look up to him for some moral guidance, as some type of role model, really is a defect on his critics' part part, not Bonds'. Let your underpaid schoolteachers be your role models, not physically gifted jocks, whatever their color.