Field ratings available
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by FRANKMANSUETO » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:30 pm
Based on Reputations means its all BS on how they actually performed. Can we throw darts to determine fielding ratings. Ortiz might get luckiy and be a 3.
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by FAaron » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:12 pm
Some more surprises:
Garrett Atkins rated better than a 4. The Rockies set a record for infield defense last season, but only got 3 twos (Helton, Tulowitski and Kaz Kablooie) and 1 four (Atkins). Troy should have gotten a 1 and Atkins a 3.
Mientkiewicz hasn't been a 1 since he caught the last out of the '04 Series. He's had the YIPS about throwing a ball since then and IMHO is one of the most overrated fielders in the game. He came to the Mets with the reputation of another Keith, and looked more like the second coming of John Milner.
Hunter Pence showed above average in the games I saw him play, but only rated a league average 3.
Not surprised about David Wright. Even though he won the Gold Glove, his range was above average (2) but not world class (1). I'm just glad they didn't penalize him for his 19 errors, almost all of which came on throws to first.
Garrett Atkins rated better than a 4. The Rockies set a record for infield defense last season, but only got 3 twos (Helton, Tulowitski and Kaz Kablooie) and 1 four (Atkins). Troy should have gotten a 1 and Atkins a 3.
Mientkiewicz hasn't been a 1 since he caught the last out of the '04 Series. He's had the YIPS about throwing a ball since then and IMHO is one of the most overrated fielders in the game. He came to the Mets with the reputation of another Keith, and looked more like the second coming of John Milner.
Hunter Pence showed above average in the games I saw him play, but only rated a league average 3.
Not surprised about David Wright. Even though he won the Gold Glove, his range was above average (2) but not world class (1). I'm just glad they didn't penalize him for his 19 errors, almost all of which came on throws to first.
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by ilived » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:56 pm
[quote:e351089e38="FAaron"]Garrett Atkins rated better than a 4. The Rockies set a record for infield defense last season, but only got 3 twos (Helton, Tulowitski and Kaz Kablooie) and 1 four (Atkins). Troy should have gotten a 1 and Atkins a 3.[/quote:e351089e38]
I agree with Tulo, but not surprised. Strat rarely slots rookies in as 1s. Note Victorino jumping to a 1 after being a 2 at the corners and 3 at center last year.
The Rocks set a record for errors, not range. Here's an interesting blog entry from Todd Zolecki who covers the Phils (http://blogs.phillynews.com/inquirer/zozone/):
Fielding ability is tough to quantify.
Fielding percentage can be misleading. An infielder might catch every ball hit to him, but might have terrible range -- somebody once said Todd Zeile had the range of a cocktail napkin, ifyouknowwhatimsayin' -- which means more balls roll past him than perhaps another infielder with a slightly worse fielding percentage. Outfield assists don't always mean the outfielder has a strong arm. One outfielder might have more assists than another outfielder with a better arm because more teams simply run on him.
The Hardball Times Baseball Annual 2008 ranked every big-league team's fielding ability in 2007 based on its Plus/Minus System. The Plus/Minus System is based on videotape reviews with video scouts who record every batted ball into a computer, allowing for analysis of defense. John Dewan's Plus/Minus System ranked all thirty major league teams as follows:
Team 2007
Toronto Blue Jays +92
New York Mets +73
Atlanta Braves +68
Kansas City Royals +66
Arizona Diamondbacks +54
Detroit Tigers +45
Chicago Cubs +36
St. Louis Cardinals +36
Oakland Athletics +25
San Diego Padres +24
Philadelphia Phillies +19
San Francisco Giants +16
Cleveland Indians + 8
Washington Nationals + 4
Texas Rangers - 2
Milwaukee Brewers - 2
Colorado Rockies - 3
Minnesota Twins - 6
Los Angeles Angels -12
Boston Red Sox -14
Baltimore Orioles -14
Los Angeles Dodgers -15
New York Yankees -37
Seattle Mariners -49
Pittsburgh Pirates -50
Houston Astros -51
Cincinnati Reds -59
Chicago White Sox -76
Florida Marlins -88
Tampa Bay Devil Rays -107
According to the book, "By tracking every play of every major league game, the Video Scouts record detailed information on each play, such as the location of each batted ball, the speed, the type of hit, etc. A player gets credit (a “plus” number) if he makes a play that at least one other player at his position missed during the season; he loses credit (a “minus” number) if he misses a play that at least one other player made. Team plus/minus totals are calculated and ranked by cumulative scores at middle infield, corner infield and outfield, along with rankings on double play efficiency, skill in handling bunts, and throwing.
"While the Colorado Rockies set the major league record this year with a .989 team fielding percentage, author John Dewan believes that, “Fielding percentage is, in essence, a subset of plus/minus. Making all the plays that you’re supposed to make is a tremendous asset. But the No.1 underlying skill needed for great defense is great speed.”
I'm still not completely sold on statistics like Zone Rating, etc., but they're interesting to talk about.
I agree with Tulo, but not surprised. Strat rarely slots rookies in as 1s. Note Victorino jumping to a 1 after being a 2 at the corners and 3 at center last year.
The Rocks set a record for errors, not range. Here's an interesting blog entry from Todd Zolecki who covers the Phils (http://blogs.phillynews.com/inquirer/zozone/):
Fielding ability is tough to quantify.
Fielding percentage can be misleading. An infielder might catch every ball hit to him, but might have terrible range -- somebody once said Todd Zeile had the range of a cocktail napkin, ifyouknowwhatimsayin' -- which means more balls roll past him than perhaps another infielder with a slightly worse fielding percentage. Outfield assists don't always mean the outfielder has a strong arm. One outfielder might have more assists than another outfielder with a better arm because more teams simply run on him.
The Hardball Times Baseball Annual 2008 ranked every big-league team's fielding ability in 2007 based on its Plus/Minus System. The Plus/Minus System is based on videotape reviews with video scouts who record every batted ball into a computer, allowing for analysis of defense. John Dewan's Plus/Minus System ranked all thirty major league teams as follows:
Team 2007
Toronto Blue Jays +92
New York Mets +73
Atlanta Braves +68
Kansas City Royals +66
Arizona Diamondbacks +54
Detroit Tigers +45
Chicago Cubs +36
St. Louis Cardinals +36
Oakland Athletics +25
San Diego Padres +24
Philadelphia Phillies +19
San Francisco Giants +16
Cleveland Indians + 8
Washington Nationals + 4
Texas Rangers - 2
Milwaukee Brewers - 2
Colorado Rockies - 3
Minnesota Twins - 6
Los Angeles Angels -12
Boston Red Sox -14
Baltimore Orioles -14
Los Angeles Dodgers -15
New York Yankees -37
Seattle Mariners -49
Pittsburgh Pirates -50
Houston Astros -51
Cincinnati Reds -59
Chicago White Sox -76
Florida Marlins -88
Tampa Bay Devil Rays -107
According to the book, "By tracking every play of every major league game, the Video Scouts record detailed information on each play, such as the location of each batted ball, the speed, the type of hit, etc. A player gets credit (a “plus” number) if he makes a play that at least one other player at his position missed during the season; he loses credit (a “minus” number) if he misses a play that at least one other player made. Team plus/minus totals are calculated and ranked by cumulative scores at middle infield, corner infield and outfield, along with rankings on double play efficiency, skill in handling bunts, and throwing.
"While the Colorado Rockies set the major league record this year with a .989 team fielding percentage, author John Dewan believes that, “Fielding percentage is, in essence, a subset of plus/minus. Making all the plays that you’re supposed to make is a tremendous asset. But the No.1 underlying skill needed for great defense is great speed.”
I'm still not completely sold on statistics like Zone Rating, etc., but they're interesting to talk about.
- ilived
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by maligned » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:25 pm
I definitely get the idea of range being different from fielding%. No one could watch Hawpe, Atkins, and Holliday in action and think the Rockies were the best fielding team of all time. And I also agree that Zone Rating (percentage of balls hit into a player's typical "zone" that are fielded successfully) isn't a tell-all stat since it doesn't consider the dynamics of each batted ball. However, I do think ZR can reveal trends over long periods of time. Maybe, as someone suggested, age and lack of long-term data are the reasons for Tulowitzki not getting a 1, despite having a much higher zone rating than Rollins and Cabrera and, at least for this viewer, enormous real-life closing speed and play-finishing ability.
I'm not a Rockies fan, by the way...just a surprised Strat fan.
I'm not a Rockies fan, by the way...just a surprised Strat fan.
- maligned
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- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
by coyote303 » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:09 am
[quote:6b429c9e2d="FAaron"]Some more surprises:
Garrett Atkins rated better than a 4. The Rockies set a record for infield defense last season, but only got 3 twos (Helton, Tulowitski and Kaz Kablooie) and 1 four (Atkins). Troy should have gotten a 1 and Atkins a 3.
[/quote:6b429c9e2d]
Tulo should be a 1; however, Atkins--and I really like him as a player--deserves his 4. At least, that's the opinion of this Colorado homer.
Incidentally the book [i:6b429c9e2d]Strat-O-Matic Fanatics[/i:6b429c9e2d] offered on Strat-O-Matics home page gives a great description of how fielding ratings are determined. It's worth a read.
Garrett Atkins rated better than a 4. The Rockies set a record for infield defense last season, but only got 3 twos (Helton, Tulowitski and Kaz Kablooie) and 1 four (Atkins). Troy should have gotten a 1 and Atkins a 3.
[/quote:6b429c9e2d]
Tulo should be a 1; however, Atkins--and I really like him as a player--deserves his 4. At least, that's the opinion of this Colorado homer.
Incidentally the book [i:6b429c9e2d]Strat-O-Matic Fanatics[/i:6b429c9e2d] offered on Strat-O-Matics home page gives a great description of how fielding ratings are determined. It's worth a read.
- coyote303
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
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