Strat/card sets and closer ratings

[bcp7]

In the Lavelle thread, the issue of closer ratings was brought up, and why some guys are and aren't used.
I remember there were several discussions on the old boards, that talked about only certain sets of cards having the closer ratins, and not the standard yearly issue cards.
Could someone knowledgeable please expound on this topic?

[Valen]

When Strat first came out there were no closer ratings. Then the closer became a staple on most teams and strato decided to add it to the game. They did so and since that year all sets for current year had the ratings. I forget the exact year. But obviously all years prior to that did not have the ratings.

That applied to oldtimer teams as well. Sets produced before that date did not have the ratings. Advanced sets produced since that date have the closer ratings. But of course since oldtimer sets were produced at random based on expected popularity rather than year sequence you cannot tell by the year of the card set whether super advanced rules with closer ratings are built in to the set. I contacted strato about this once and the only response from their sales people was the more expensive sets are super advanced with the ratings and the less expensive ones are less advanced and probably do not have the ratings.

Since the ATG game is a mixture of these oldtimer sets with some years having the rating and some not having it TSN apparently decided to turn off the closer rules for the ATG game.

[Outta Leftfield]

Since there's been some objection to "thread hijacking" on the Lavelle thread, I'm going to bring this quote by sschu in from that thread:

[quote:750be2a02c]t just occurred to me that Orosco has closed well for me at Yankee 56, he is a 3L, so it depends a bit on other factors.

If you wanted to try a reverse type guy in a mid relief or setup role, Rollie or Sparky would be good choices. The 1RP thing would make me hesitate on Lavelle.

Here are Rollie and Orosco in Yankee 56, Rollie had a terrible start, but he came around.

http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/baseball/stratomatic/atg2/team/team_other.html?user_id=89306

sschu
[/quote:750be2a02c]

What I find interesting here is that if you look at the team stats Fingers, who is a N@, was effective in 132 innings but had only 2 saves while posting a 10-7 record. Similarly, Bahnsen, another N@, was effective in 134 innings but also had only 2 saves, while posting a 13-6 record. Meanwhile, Orosco (a 5@) had 34 saves in 89.2 innings with a 2-8 innings. It sure looks from these stats like Fingers and Bahnsen are performing classic middle relief roles, with a lot of innings and many vultured wins but very few saves. Orosco is clearly in the classic closer role, with lots of saves, a negative won-lost despite quality pitching, and relatively few innings. I guess the next question is, what about the settings? Unless sschu had his manager settings on maximize for closer and had Orosco in the closer role, this might provide strong circumstantial evidence that the "closer" rule is in fact in effect in ATGII. Maybe he could comment on this?

Meanwile, what are other folks experience?--I'm a newbie to ATGII. If the closer rule IS in effect, then it would seem to mean that you HAVE to have a closer or you're going to have bad luck in the late innings. And given the erratic way in which the closer setting has been implemented in the ATGII card set, it seems like if it is a problem, TSN should fix it. Because the closer setting really should be turned off if pitchers like Fingers, Gossage and others are not perceived as closers and kept from performing that role. :wink:

[FAaron]

Actually, ATGII doesn't use the closer rule. How do I know? I've used plenty of pitchers in the closers rule to good effect who don't have a closer rating, such as Hooks Wiltse, Osinski, and Tunnell. Probably the best experience I've ever had with a closer was in ATGI, where I used the late, lamented starter Mark Langston as a closer on a team in Griffith Stadium and he was practically untouchable.

[seyclops]

From what I've seen, the closer rule IS being used. If you select an (N) to close, but have a reliever with a rating on the staff, I think HAL takes the rated guy and completely ignores the closer. In my leagues we've had a number of cases where N relievers designated as closers got next to zero work. This repeated result -- off the top of my head, it happened with Pete Richert and Willie Hernandez -- clearly indicates that something is going on.

IMHO, I think an (N)-rated reliever will get saves if there are no rated closers on the staff to confuse HAL, or perhaps if there is no designated closer at all.

It would be nice if HAL's keepers would either make absolutely sure the closer ratings aren't involved, or would simply go back and add a rating to those who obviously deserve one, such as Hernandez, who closed his way to the Cy Young during the year in question.

[Outta Leftfield]

...and--by putting the two posts immediately above together--maybe, just maybe, this is what's happening:

1) The fatigue hit is NOT occuring to closers at the rated time (e.g @5=fatigue after a hit following the 5th out), so TSN can say that the closer function is turned off.
2) But, for whatever reason, HAL [b:d364003036]is[/b:d364003036] using the @N to exclude those with the @N rating from the closer role.
3) However, if there are rated closers at all in the bullpen (non-@Ns), HAL will use other pitchers in that role. And since the fatigue factor is not kicking in, guys like Wiltse, etc., can be effective.
4) So the moral of the story would be that if you want to have a @N reliever serve as a closer, then don't have any rated closers in your bullpen. For example, on my first team I've got Richert in my BP. Maybe if I weed out all rated closers, HAL will use him as a closer???

Does that seem to square with everyone's experience?

If so, item 4 could be a short-term fix, but--longer term--TSN really ought to recognize and repair the problem.

[sschu]

Settings for my team:

Manager Settings:
Orosco Closer LH/RH
Closer Use = Max

Orosco
Slow Hook
No Use in Blowout
Not B4 8th

Bahnsen & Fingers
Slow Hook only

I have used Bob Miller as a closer where he had 50+ saves, to the best of my knowledge, he does not have an N rating.

FWIIW, sschu

[Outta Leftfield]

Thanks, sschu! :D

As an ATGII newbie who's still learning, mabye I should try the following experiment.

My two main RP are Richert (N@) and Guisti (5@). Maybe I should try putting Richert in the closer role, using exactly the settings used by sschu for Orosco, then see what HAL does. If HAL uses Richert in the closer role, and Guisti as setup man, then there's no bug. If HAL refused to use Richert as closer, then we'll know there really is an issue. In any case, I will have a fallback for this season, since Guisti can has the settings that will let him close.

[sschu]

Post your team, help is available.

Richert can definitely close. I like Giusti in a floater role. I hope you have at least one more decent RP. A lot depends on your park and the competition.

sschu

[Outta Leftfield]

It's actually been discussed extensively on another thread, which I think is still somewhere on page 1.

My other RPs are all cheapos. My previous experience is with Back to the 80's, where you can often get by with two good RPs (though there you don't know who they will be when the season starts.) I have a five man staff with several guys rated to go 8 or 9 innings, which I was hoping would ease the pressure on the bullpen. Also, I was hoping the strong up the middle defense and the 1s in the OF would help the pitchers.

http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/baseball/stratomatic/atg2/team/team_other.html?user_id=102486