Have you won big with a "second-tier" shortstop?

[Outta Leftfield]

I've won my division with Smalley at SS, platooning with UL Washington. Smalley had a .907 OPS; ULW was .839 in 257 AB. Another time, I won a division with Burleson--I'm not sure if he qualifies as a tier SS.

I was champs with a Guillen/ Washington platoon (that after trying several other cheap SS--Concepcion, Schofield/Gagne, Franco-- who all bombed out.)

I do prefer the premium SS--I've mostly tried to draft Trammell or Ripken--because I like building around a guy who can both field and hit. But the cheaper guys can work too, and they give you cash to use elsewhere. Below the premium level, there's a lot to be said for "cheap." Smalley is arguably the true bargain the the bunch, though anybody can work in the right year.

[albert2b]

[url]http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/baseball/stratomatic/80s/team/team_other.html?user_id=377[/url]

[url]http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/baseball/stratomatic/80s/team/team_other.html?user_id=29036[/url]

A couple more cheapie SS on winners :wink:

[garycampbell39]

I won 89 games with Gagne at shortstop.

[seanreflex]

OK, let's re-phrase the question: how many have won with a 1st tier SS ? This list would include Yount, Trammell, Ozzie, Ripken, Fernandez.

Also, how many have had teams lost more than 90 games with one of those 5 SS in the 5-hole the entire season?

[YountFan]

Sean is right. The s2n tier guys are better because even though the big 5 are good their high salary forces you to skimp else where and trammel at 6 mil will not out hit Will Clark or other same priced or lower priced guys

[Jimmy_C]

QUOTE: OK, let's re-phrase the question: how many have won with a 1st tier SS ?

Won it all 3 times...with Ozzie twice and Burleson once.
Lost 90+ 3 times...with Tempelton, Ozzie, Burleson.

I think it is just like anything else with the 2nd tier shortstops (or any other position). If you find 1 or 2 cheapies that can really rock on your team, you are going to win a lot of games...maybe the whole thing... because you have a lot more cash to swing around for the other positions.

But it doesn't necessarily need to be the shortstop...it could be Remy at 2nd, Caldwell on the mound, Cerone behind the dish, Salazar at third, or of course a 2nd tier shortstop... etc. If the cheapie guy rocks (or wow...2 of them) then your team is positioned well to rock.

[baracus68]

[quote:3962de0ea8]OK, let's re-phrase the question: how many have won with a 1st tier SS ? This list would include Yount, Trammell, Ozzie, Ripken, Fernandez.[/quote:3962de0ea8]

It's worked for me (so far): a couple 102-win seasons with Ozzie Smith and Trammel, my first championship on another Ozzie team. It just seems to me, looking at all the positions, shortstop seems to have the fewest top guys, players who can really bolster your pitching staff with their glove and also contribute on offense, i.e., it's easier to improvise elsewhere if you need to than to come up with a plan B at SS. Also, SS defense is the most important D spot, I think. So in this great '80s game of uncertainties (is my cleanup hitter going to clean up? Is my top starter going to dominate?), it's nice plugging in a certainty at an important spot.

I started this thread because I knew I was staring at a possible plan B at SS because I was trying for Yount. Didn't get him. Now it's on to Ozzie...Guillen. :cry: I'm not feeling that good about it. Smalley's available, but he seems to me like he's not a great fit for Fenway (his power's better as a lefty).

[Outta Leftfield]

[quote:ecff6868d4="YountFan"]Sean is right. The s2n tier guys are better because even though the big 5 are good their high salary forces you to skimp else where and trammel at 6 mil will not out hit Will Clark or other same priced or lower priced guys[/quote:ecff6868d4]

What's this I hear? YountFan is saying Yount is not worth his big salary?

Anyway, it's worked both ways for me. I've won championships with both Ozzie and Ripken at SS. On other Ripken teams I've won 88, 91, and 96 games. Trammell teams have won 96 and 105 games. So, clearly you can win some games with a 1st tier SS. My one Fernandez team is 79-59 as we speak, though he hasn't, in fact,done much offensively.

On the other hand, among cheaper SS, I've won a championship with Guillen/ULW and won 90 with Smalley/ ULW--who, as I mentioned above, hit a ton. Burleson teams have won 89 games twice. I guess he's a kind of hybrid--not really top tier, but more expensive than the next tier.

I've also had some bad experiences with the expensive SS. When they're in a bad year they can be a problem because they're tying up so much cash and the replacement options are so limited with most of the other viable SS already on a team. If they're underhitting a good year, that can pose a similar problem.

Still, if I have my druthers I tend to like to build around a SS and 2B who can field and hit, since you can always find hitters on the corners, where defense is less important. And since hitting comes cheaper at the corners, that gives you the chance of having a solid offensive lineup top to bottom combined with strong defense up the middle. Since I like that solide top to bottom lineup, if I need to get a cheaper SS I would tend to look for a hitter--Smalley rather than Bowa, for example.

[honestiago1]

Since defense is paramount in the middle, guys who can pick it and hit it are exceptionally valuable. If you can't get that, then you can always compromise, take a fielding combo at one position and maybe a hitter with an average glove at another (say, using Lopes or Sax with a 2 or better at SS). The general wisdom that you can find hitters at the corners tends to be true. And with this being a DH league, why not spend less on one of your middle IF's and get a really good DH. After all, not EVERYONE in the order needs to bat .300 or hit homers. A guy like Guillen can serve as a #2 hitter, even, if you're looking for a guy to move runners.

[baracus68]

I went with Smalley, with Schofield as a D replacement and possible righty platoon. Guillen's available and I've considered dropping Smalley and going with a Guillen/Schofield platoon, but I guess I like having at some possible run production at every spot in the lineup. Here's the squad:

http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/baseball/stratomatic/80s/team/team_other.html?user_id=72259