HAL SP hook/RP usage question

[thisisdan26]

I have Isringhausen(R1/C6) on an 07 team. Game 1 of my playoff series he went 1 inning facing 5 batters 1 BB 1 H and 1 ER (23 pitches) in a non save situation.
Game 2: non save situation again. 2/3 IP 3 batters faced, 1 H (15 pitches)

Then in game 3, I have a 2 run lead going into the 8th inning. Peavy, on slow hook, has gone 7 innings 3 H 1 BB 2 ERs (98pitches) without allowing a BB or Hit since the 1st inning is pulled without facing a batter in the 8th for Bobby Seay (best reliever on the team other than Isringhausen.) Seay gives up 3 runs to lose.

1st question....Why is Peavy pulled before even starting the 8th when he is doing so well, and he is on slow hook. (relief usage- normal)

2nd question....Was Isringhausen unavailable? He pitched his max without fatigue in game 1 but only 2/3 IP in game 2.

[KEITHLAMONT]

My understanding would be your relief setting on normal vs conservative. Its normal for a setup guy to come in in the 8th and Isringhausen is a R1 not R2 which typically means one inning(inning 9).

[thisisdan26]

even if i put Isringhausen as my setup and closer seeing as hes a C6.

[apolivka]

My understanding is that Jason wouldn't go in since he pitched two consecutive games right before the game in question. Pitch count and number of batters faced mean nothing.

As a separate item, a C6 selected for both setup and closing will pitch the 8th and 9th a lot, but not always. Best utilization of a super expensive reliever I've found to be closer usage to "regular", relief usage set to "conservative" and intentional walk set to "extra conservative". That way, your starter is least likely to tire early, and it keeps your (typically bad) other relievers out as much as possible.

[keyzick]

[quote:185bf90a78="apolivka"]My understanding is that Jason wouldn't go in since he pitched two consecutive games right before the game in question. Pitch count and number of batters faced mean nothing.

As a separate item, a C6 selected for both setup and closing will pitch the 8th and 9th a lot, but not always. Best utilization of a super expensive reliever I've found to be closer usage to "regular", relief usage set to "conservative" and intentional walk set to "extra conservative". That way, your starter is least likely to tire early, and it keeps your (typically bad) other relievers out as much as possible.[/quote:185bf90a78]


If I read the SOM rules correctly, the "6" in C6 refers to number of batters a closer can face in a save situation before facing fatigue.

Also - your starter will get tired at the same rate, regardless of your settings. The starter's endurance is based on his own ratings, not the owner's settings.

[thisisdan26]

I get the C6 part, I just didnt know why he wouldnt be available when hes an R1 and he pitched 1 inning then 2/3 of an inning 2 days in a row, apparantley the amount he pitched doesn't matter? 2 appearances in 2 days means fatigue for the 3 day I take it no matter how much he pitched in each appearance? And I also understand the starter is going to fatigue at the same rate no matter what my settings are, Ive just seen plenty of games where Peavy, along with many other S7s, have been in the same situation as this game and were left in the game, at least to start the 8th or 9th, and if a hitter got on a RP would be brought in. I just dont understand the inconsistency of when SPs are pulled or left in the game.

[apolivka]

[quote:b03a3c0e9d="keyzick"][quote:b03a3c0e9d="apolivka"]My understanding is that Jason wouldn't go in since he pitched two consecutive games right before the game in question. Pitch count and number of batters faced mean nothing.

As a separate item, a C6 selected for both setup and closing will pitch the 8th and 9th a lot, but not always. Best utilization of a super expensive reliever I've found to be closer usage to "regular", relief usage set to "conservative" and intentional walk set to "extra conservative". That way, your starter is least likely to tire early, and it keeps your (typically bad) other relievers out as much as possible.[/quote:b03a3c0e9d]


If I read the SOM rules correctly, the "6" in C6 refers to number of batters a closer can face in a save situation before facing fatigue.

Also - your starter will get tired at the same rate, regardless of your settings. The starter's endurance is based on his own ratings, not the owner's settings.[/quote:b03a3c0e9d]

You read the rules incorrectly. :) It is outs, not batters. Here are the actual rules:

---start rules-----

"Closer Situation

A "closer situation" occurs whenever the defensive team has the lead and the tying run is at-bat or on-base from the 9th inning on. When this situation occurs then observe the following rule changes:
Reliever being brought into the game

When bringing a relief pitcher into the game in a closer situation ignore his Relief Endurance rating. Instead use his Closer Endurance rating to determine the number of outs he can record before he loses his effectiveness.

Once this number of outs have been recorded, the pitcher will lose his effectiveness as soon as he allows a hit or a walk. If a pitcher is rated 0, then he loses his effectiveness as soon as he allows a hit or a walk. When a pitcher loses his effectiveness, he has reached his POW.

If the pitcher being brought into the game in a closer situation has a Closer Endurance rating of "N", then he enters the game with the loss effectiveness penalty already in affect (he has reached his POW). For pitchers rated as a "N", this penalty is always in effect starting with the first batter they face in a closer situation.
Reliever currently in the game

If the pitcher in the game has a Closer Endurance rating of "N", then he immediately loses his effectiveness (he reaches his POW.)

If the pitcher in the game has a Closer Endurance rating of 0 to 6, you should subtract the number of outs that he has already recorded in this game from his closer rating. This number becomes his Closer Endurance for this game. If the computed number is less than 0, then accept 0 as his Closer Endurance for this game.

Follow the rules outlined above (under "Reliever being brought into the game") using this computed Closer Endurance instead of his actual rating."

---end rules-----

Also, your settings can factor in to "tiredness" of starting pitchers. Intentional walks put guys on base and are potential runs that may make your pitcher hit his fatigue factor sooner. (but maybe not, depends on if you believe intentional walks _save_ runs or not. I don't believe they do in strat.)

My actual post above was based on what to do to maximize the use of your key/expensive reliever. (i.e. keep your starters in as long as possible and use as many innings of your key reliever as possible) and I think it's generally good advice if you have mostly S7 starters and a great C6 reliever. A C6 reliever put into the game in the 8th will not reach his POW unless he blows the save. My experience is that HAL won't yank him either. Usually. Unless the wind is blowing from the east, and it's a Tuesday...

[apolivka]

[quote:e31ade2266="thisisdan26"]I get the C6 part, I just didnt know why he wouldnt be available when hes an R1 and he pitched 1 inning then 2/3 of an inning 2 days in a row, apparantley the amount he pitched doesn't matter? 2 appearances in 2 days means fatigue for the 3 day I take it no matter how much he pitched in each appearance? And I also understand the starter is going to fatigue at the same rate no matter what my settings are, Ive just seen plenty of games where Peavy, along with many other S7s, have been in the same situation as this game and were left in the game, at least to start the 8th or 9th, and if a hitter got on a RP would be brought in. I just dont understand the inconsistency of when SPs are pulled or left in the game.[/quote:e31ade2266]

Here's the Relief Pitcher's rest rule:

---start rules----

Relief Pitcher's Rest Requirements

Relief pitchers cannot be used more than 2 straight days. He must rest at least 1 day after pitching 2 straight days. If the pitcher was used as a starter in his previous outing then before he can be used as a reliever he must rest the amount of days specified in the SUPER-ADVANCED STARTING PITCHERS REST CHART. If a pitcher who does not have a rating as a relief pitcher must pitch in relief, give him an endurance rating of 1.

----end rules-----

The rest of your comments get into how HAL deals with the "when do I yank a starter" question. If I actually knew the answer to that, I would charge real world $$$ for it. :)

It's based on the score of the game, the pitcher's tiredness factor, where you are in the batting order, how many guys are on base, the alignment of the stars and planets, and luck.

[thisisdan26]

Thanks for that info. Just a bit frustrating when the best pitcher in the game is pulled "early" and its up to the pen to blow the game. :evil: