70s/80s Players' Championship, Year 2 (ROUND 4 - look NOW)

[echo22]

70's League #4

EAST Manager W L PCT GB L10 Strk HM RD vs.L vs.R RS RA
NY Tourneyzillas 1 Jimmy_C (2240) 14 10 .583 - 6-4 W1 5-4 9-6 4-3 10-7 116 97
Animal House Toi_San (2005) 13 11 .542 1.0 4-6 L1 8-7 5-4 3-3 10-8 118 88
Wookin Pa Nub sellingw (295) 12 12 .500 2.0 4-6 L3 4-8 8-4 2-5 10-7 126 120
Wells Fargo Stagecoach 1 LMBombers (4635) 8 16 .333 6.0 5-5 W1 5-7 3-9 1-5 7-11 109 148

CENTRAL Manager W L PCT GB L10 Strk HM RD vs.L vs.R RS RA
Yo Mama BS1 Jablowmi (5042) 13 11 .542 - 5-5 W1 7-2 6-9 4-3 9-8 144 146
reds raiders ldanred (3664) 13 11 .542 - 5-5 L1 6-6 7-5 4-2 9-9 131 117
West Philly Afro Picks Phillyhemp (550) 12 12 .500 1.0 5-5 L1 7-5 5-7 2-4 10-8 124 124
Tenacious Tulips echo22 (317) 10 14 .417 3.0 5-5 L1 7-5 3-9 5-4 5-10 125 134

WEST Manager W L PCT GB L10 Strk HM RD vs.L vs.R RS RA
Boston Dadtoms '70s jsam9801 (2764) 15 9 .625 - 5-5 W1 6-6 9-3 2-3 13-6 132 122
Bronx Zoo II ebbets1957 (238) 14 10 .583 1.0 4-6 L1 9-6 5-4 1-1 13-9 162 133
Brooklyn Blazers ZARKOV (2692) 11 13 .458 4.0 7-3 W1 6-9 5-4 4-3 7-10 118 144
Crescent City Dixie Sixpacks Jack377 (5333) 9 15 .375 6.0 5-5 W3 2-7 7-8 1-2 8-13 106 138


80's League #3

EAST Manager W L PCT GB L10 Strk HM RD RS RA
Diabolic Divas echo22 (339) 17 7 .708 - 6-4 L1 7-2 10-5 151 107
Crozier's Cannibals IV ths92110 (328) 13 11 .542 4.0 6-4 L1 6-6 7-5 125 137
Republican War Criminals 2 jettblack (1300) 9 15 .375 8.0 4-6 L1 2-10 7-5 125 125
Halles Heroes BS2 hallerose (678) 9 15 .375 8.0 4-6 L2 6-9 3-6 137 167

CENTRAL Manager W L PCT GB L10 Strk HM RD RS RA
Crescent City Dixie Sixpacks Jack377 (5338) 16 8 .667 - 6-4 L2 9-3 7-5 156 119
Pac-Man Fever II ebbets1957 (238) 12 12 .500 4.0 5-5 W2 4-5 8-7 133 140
Driftwood DudevillesXVI Moodywoody (2698) 12 12 .500 4.0 5-5 W1 7-5 5-7 121 124
Spring Bumble Bees HoustonMetFan (1715) 8 16 .333 8.0 4-6 W2 6-6 2-10 117 129

WEST Manager W L PCT GB L10 Strk HM RD RS RA
Asinine Assassins chess2899 (595) 16 8 .667 - 6-4 W1 7-2 9-6 166 110
Rigaud Rams Great Unwashed (2710) 13 11 .542 3.0 5-5 L2 7-8 6-3 135 123
Noxon Nightdwellers Billings Ballers (807) 11 13 .458 5.0 4-6 W2 7-5 4-8 124 158
Wareham Tourney Bombers durantjerry (5672) 8 16 .333 8.0 5-5 W1 6-9 2-7 131 182

[phillyhemp]

I hate doing this, but Riker's manager gave me some lip so he compelled me into action.

Here's the deal: RI traded Kal Daniels (.336 BA, .993 OPS) and Van Slyke (.311 BA, .996 OPS)to Rikers for R. Henderson (injury revealed .267 worst year) and Kruk (.216 BA). Sound fair? The teams involved are Rhode Island Roadrunners and Rikers Rams. 80s tourney #4.

Given all the neat free stuff on the line, I think this trade is blatently uneven. Rikers, the beneficiary of Daniels and Van Slyke told me to mind my own damn team and defended the trade by saying that Rickey is the greatest leadoff hitter of all time and that Daniels and Van Slyke's stats were inflated by the ballpark (Jack Murphy). I think this is ridiculous. The trade is beyond any ballpark adjustments and who really cares about Rickey's real life reputation? And how does trading away two power hitters help a team in the Murph? I do not see how RI can justify this trade. This trade actually helps me, because RI is in my division, but I think the integrity of the league is more important. Any thoughts?

[Moodywoody]

There could be an intelligent reason for this trade. Maybe one doesn't want to carry too many platoon hitters and even Rickey's worst card is still a better leadoff hitter than most. He may have good right hand hitters available instead, or they may be confident in finding good left handed hitters on waivers. Fact of the matter, unless you draft Rickey, you usually have to give up a premium to trade for him no matter what card, and if it had been a better card, he wouldn't have been traded at all regardless of the offer.


Finally, there is nothing wrong in offering a premium in a trade for a player you really want for whatever reason for your team.


Unless you can prove collusion (like someone controls more than one team), there is really nothing you can do about it or should. It is like saying no one should ever drop a good player. Mistakes happen. Therefore you should be careful not to question anyone's integrity. It is just a game afterall, and this kind of stuff is not worth fighting over or questioning someone's character.


With all due respect, I would let this one go.

[Rigged Splits]

I agree that Ricky's worst card is very good and we don't even know what will happen to Kruk. Kruk's worst card is pretty good against righties though I don't know that I'd want him in Murphy unless I had a power year. Is he going to be dropped for a better player? The trade could be considered Henderson and cash for Daniels and Van Slyke. It's also hard to tell this early how good Daniels and Van Slyke will be. I'm in a 70s league where until last night Roy Smalley's 79 card was leading the league in RBI and OB+SLG while second in BA. His OB+SLG is 1.127 and I know this won't last. Of course his overall cards don't come near in comparison to Van Slyke or Daniels who have a better chance of keeping their stats up there.

[echo22]

I wouldn't say it was collusion, but it does look like an idiotic trade to me. Rickey in his worst year isn't that good. I've had his worst year and dropped him, it's just not worth his salary IMO. I certainly would never trade two guys that are performing for one guy in his worst year and one that isn't performing, especially since Van Slyke is a CF1. That said I don't know the makeup of the two teams involved so I don't know if Rickey fits better than Van Slyke/Daniels. I certainly would have asked for something more than Rickey/Kruk in return though.

This has been a werid tourney so far. My 80's league has seen so many big names dropped prematurely, many with good injury reveals. Clemens, Gwynn, McGwire, Molitar, D. Baker, Kingman, all dropped with good years. I dropped Grich after his horrid start (HAL was pinch hitting for him) and he's been tearing it up for another team. My 70's team stinks. Nothing like getting bad cards from all your studs in Fulton :cry:

[ebbets1957]

Trading is part of the game. As bad as it looks (and it does look bad) in a league like this, if you can pull off a good trade, I think more power to you.

You still get points (even if you are out of the running) for winning games, so I do not think this was intentional.

And in my defense, as the person who cut Paul Molitor, we was only hitting .246 after 57 AB, and I picked up Boggs for him, who is hitting .350, so I much as I would love to have him back, it doest sting so bad.

Also, I did pick up McGwire and Kingman, so I did ok....but you are right, there have been a ton of huge cuts in the 80's for sure.

[Jimmy_C]

I'm in that league and sent out basically the following:

Personally, I'd never trade '90 AVS and '87 or '90 Daniels for '82 Ricky and ANY Kruk card. With that being said...

1) Lopsided trades...They happen.
2) If anyone else wants to trade a ton of talent for a pile of crap, please send me a trade offer.

I assume both managers are in it to win, and making the best deals they can. That's how it goes...

[sphilipp8]

Wow. I'm the guy who traded for Rickey and Kruk. I assure you there's no collusion going on. Both of my Tourney teams are in 1st place and I'm trying to keep them there.

I'll provide an explanation - not that one's needed but I enjoyed reading the uproar and am interested in what others will think of my rationale.

First, Rickey wasn't injured when I made the trade offer so I didn't know it was his 82 card. Not that it matters to me. Rickey's 82 card OBP against RHP is among the best in the game.

Kruk's card is 89. Van Slyke's is 90 and Daniels' is 87, 90 or 91. As far as Daniels is concerned - I'm not convinced he doesn't have his 91 card. This is based on some strange moves by HAL. I'm playing a hunch with Daniels as HAL can be an idiot.

When I look at Kruk's 89 vs. Van Slyke's 90 - I don't see that much of a difference offensively. YountFan's StratRat website 80s Card Count has a 107.1 OB+TB for Kruk and a 111.45 for Van Slyke. And, if I need more power I can always drop Kruk for another RF.

So, I thought Kruk vs. Van Slyke was almost even leaving Rickey vs. Daniels. Daniels was my leadoff guy and I think Henderson is certainly better in that category. The Rams were playing Rickey in CF. Now they have Van Slyke. Kruk was the DH now they have Daniels. I thought it was a fair trade - unless my hunch on Daniels is correct. In which case I think I got the better of the deal.

Also, the Rams have offered to undo the trade altogether or wait until Rickey is healthy. I'm going to keep it the way it is.

This is my rationale. What do you think?

[phillyhemp]

Like I said on the league message board, that works for me. I think Rams could have handled it better. I do not value Rickey's worst card as much as you do. I also don't understand why you would want to get rid of all that power in the Murph. I think the trade goes against most people's common sense, but given your first place status I never suggested it was collusion, merely that it didn't look right. Had Rams reacted more appropriately I probably would have just dropped it.

[Ducky]

I am not in the tournament this year so I am totally unbiased. Rickey is still very solid even in his '82 season. As for Van Slyke and Daniels, I never touch either one of them because they are platoon players, rather expensive platoon players not to mention that Daniels has injury issues. Kruk is another guy I don't use much, but as you mention, you can drop him for someone else if necessary.

Should the trade be undone because some people were offended? No way.

Trading is very difficult in this game and I work hard at it. Managers always value their own players much more than those of their opponents. Human nature I guess.

Only three things bother me when it comes to trading:

First is when veteran managers take advantage of rookies that do not understand injury reveals. I always state any injury reveal when I am including a player that has had a reveal in the trade.

Second is when two teams make mulitple deals to the advantage of one team. That is collusion.

Third is when a manager is out of contention and starts a fire sale by stating that they give up and are willing to part with any of their good players for little or nothing in return.

All other trading is part of the game. Sometimes you gamble and win and sometimes you lose.

Mike