Post poor in-game relief decisions here

[bernieh]

I'm giving you the opportunity to convince me that the computer manager does a poor job managing your bullpens. Please see [url=http://forums-beta.sportingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=65308]this other thread[/url] for why I believe it will do a good job if only it was given a realistic-sized bullpen to deal with.

I've put traces into the bullpen logic which will hopefully tell me what the computer manager was thinking when it made a certain relief decision. If you think it is clear that it made a poor one - and your [i:8c8d2d2b85]reasonably-sized[/i:8c8d2d2b85] bullpen was [i:8c8d2d2b85]rested[/i:8c8d2d2b85] and your individual player settings made sense - please post it here, [i:8c8d2d2b85]the day it happens[/i:8c8d2d2b85]. Starting with last night's games.

When posting, please include the following info:

- Game (ATG II, 2005, etc.)
- Team Name
- Game # (1-162)
- What happened
- Why you think it was a poor decision
(relevant settings; game situation; bullpen rest status)
- What you think would've been better

This thread is only to post specific game instances, one to a post. If I feel a given one needs to be responded to, I'll edit the post with my response. All other posts will be deleted.

Thanks,
Bernie

[visick]

bump for a great idea Bernie...TY

[bleacher_creature]

Here you go:

http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/baseball/stratomatic/2005/playoffs/boxscore.html?group_id=10343&g_id=975

Look at the bottom of the 9th. This killed me, as I needed a split heading home for games 3 and 4.

2005 SOM
TSN_10343

edit: Benitez set on slow hook; didn't pitch the day prior; Shouse was available and rested to face that bastard Mackowiak.

[hendrix08]

Bleacher,

I don't understand your problem with Hal in that game. Benitez pitched 2+ innings. It would be nice if we could get our stud RP to pitch 3 innings every game but its just not going to happen. I think that Yan was an appropriate substitution. Hal put Yan in to face a switch hitter and a lefty, which is exactly what you want. Also Yan has zero home run chances against lefties so that home run came from the hitters card, which means that even if it was Benitez still in the game you most likely still would have lost. Just my opinion. No offense intended.

[bleacher_creature]

[quote:5de9d13459="hendrix08"]Bleacher,

I don't understand your problem with Hal in that game. Benitez pitched 2+ innings. It would be nice if we could get our stud RP to pitch 3 innings every game but its just not going to happen. I think that Yan was an appropriate substitution. Hal put Yan in to face a switch hitter and a lefty, which is exactly what you want. Also Yan has zero home run chances against lefties so that home run came from the hitters card, which means that even if it was Benitez still in the game you most likely still would have lost. Just my opinion. No offense intended.[/quote:5de9d13459]

Aight. Maybe that's all I needed to hear. I did realize the zero HR chances vs lefties, which means it came off the hitters card. Also, maybe I'm not anticipating who the pinch hitter would have been vs Shouse.

I'll shut up now, because the better team won, and that pen got me into the playoffs.

[teepack]

Here's one from two days ago:

Screaming Eeeeeeeeees
2005, Game 109

I have a five-man bullpen - Wagner as closer, Otsuka as set-up both ways, then I have Fields as a reverse righty, Embree to get out lefties and Leicester as a righty specialist.

The game before, the only reliever that had been used was Otsuka, and he had been used in the game prior to that as well, so he was not available, but everybody else was rested.

Bottom of the seventh, and I am losing 2-1. My starter is Freddy Garcia, and he's still in the game. With two outs, Garcia runs into trouble and loads the bases. Ronnie Belliard (3L) is the next batter. Instead of bringing in Leicester (a 9R), HAL brings in Embree, who gives up a grand slam to Belliard. This was a lineup that had six righthanded bats in it, so I had Leicester checked not to come in before the 6th inning and avoid lefties. I had Embree checked max 1-2 IP and not to come in before the 6th.

Heck, I would have preferred it brought in Fields to face Belliard, but I might have checked Fields to Don't come in before 9th inning (I can't remember) since that team had so many righties in its lineup.

[url]http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/baseball/stratomatic/2005/league/boxscore.html?group_id=10903&g_id=649[/url]

In that same series, my opponent had HAL bring in John Franco (8L) to face Derek Lee (1L) with the bases loaded, and Lee hit a grand slam. Have no idea how he had set his pen up, but he has Smoltz and Gryboski as set-up men, and Smoltz had not been used at all in the series up to that point.

[jodynadu]

Bernie

http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/baseball/stratomatic/2005/league/boxscore.html?group_id=11805&g_id=110

Game 19 (last night) 2005 game in Wrigley field
Team- Brown Cows

Up 6-3 with 1 out in top of 8th, the SP Carlos Silva allows single, walk, double scoring a run.
So, 6-4 runners on 2nd and 3rd with Larry Walker up, Troy Glaus on deck, Quinlan in the hole.
HAL brings in Fuentes (7L) to face Walker. Walker flys out for the second out of the inning and runners don't advance.
HAL keeps Fuentes in to face Glaus who hits a 3 run bomb.
HAL replaces Fuentes with Gagne to face Quinlan. Brown Cows lose 7-6.

I think Fuentes should have been replaced with Gagne to face Glaus after retiring Walker as option 1.
As a far Option 2 Fuentes should have intentionally walked Glaus and Gagne brought in to face Quinlan with the bases loaded and a 2 run lead, but in no way should Fuentes have pitched to Glaus with the game on the line.

Every reliever was WELL rested. A complete game shutout was thrown game 18.
Manger settings: Closer - regular, Relief usage - conservative, intentional walk - normal

Bullpen:
Isringhausen (closer vs. L&R) - avoid using before 7th, slow hook
Gagne (setup vs. R) - avoid using before 6th [last games pitched 16&17]
Fuentes (setup vs. L) - avoid using before 8th [last games pitched 12]
Witasik (9R) - avoid before 9th
JJ Putz- mop up

[i:8a1ec54fb3]Edit by bernieh: Thanks for the very clear post. This is exactly how I'd like examples to be presented. I do agree that Gagne would've been the right move. I don't think this is particularly egregious, though, as a lot of current real-life managers would've left Fuentes in there. Thanks again for your example - it helped me put more traces into the code to diagnose future cases.[/i:8a1ec54fb3]

[nevdully's]

I've repeatedly had top [b:d866e4e680]starters with a lead[/b:d866e4e680] pinch-hit for in the [b:d866e4e680]5th inning on slow hook[/b:d866e4e680], while also having a starter remain in the game to bat when trailing in the bottom of the 9th by several runs.....

I'll search for the first example and should find plenty, the 2nd example happens less frequently but I'll find a few.

Although this may not be possible, ATG pens should run much differently than 200x pens

[nevdully's]

I think a seperate thread for this topic should be posted on the ATG site as well. It might lead to less confusion for you and others. It's quite a different ballgame (or should be)

[teepack]

I had back-to-back games the other night where HAL brought in Nate Fields (2L, checked to avoid righthanded batters) to face Manny Ramirez, instead of bringing in Jon Leicester (9R). Two games in a row.