BONDS BOMB

[milezd]

my somewhat random thoughts regarding the whole bonds & steroids thing:

is the newspaper and SI out to make a buck? yeah, but, anyone who reports anything in a newspaper does it to make a buck

from what I've read and heard the two reporters have a very good reputation and are known for being very good journalists

steroids have been ignored for years for several reasons, the wink wink between player and reporter, the lack of hard evidence, the league quietly saying nothing, the only way steriods could finally get the attention it deserves is to have an a-list star player be the culprit, that way it is not as easy for the league to quietly sweep it under the rug

we now have the cold hard facts, we have the a-list player, and now it has the attention it deserves, I for one am glad this is happening, I want to have this issue finally dealt with

steroids not illegal? I could be wrong but I was under the impression that a lot of what he used was illegal at the time he used them, illegal as in against the laws of the united states, not illegal as in against MLB rules


bonds, prior to '98 was on a hall of fame track, so it's hard to ignore what he did prior to his use of steriods

I hope they expand the "crusade" to include other things as well, stimulants, etc

[goredsox33]

[quote:adadd7c2c5="helium56"]I've been reading the Chronicle for 40 years and i am completely disgusted by these two "reporters". I've been a reporter myself, and it's unprofessional to the nth degree to launch a PERSONAL vendetta against someone. This is not about steroids. This is about some bitter, small little man trying to take down the "big dog". These reporters are supposed to be covering the games, but the SF sporting green is rife with their daily and endless whining. They sound like jealous little boys, and should be FIRED and sent to their rooms.

Sure, steroids were used. Maybe by Barry, maybe not. Innocent until proven guilty...remember that one? And IF bonds was taking them, they were LEGAL at the time, and so I would imagine a few hundred others were taking them as well. Where is the outrage at Armando Rios? And where is the outrage over 375 pound offensive linemen who pop steroids and amphetamines like candy? Do we take away rushing records because linemen pop steroids? Why aren't THEY the poster boys for steroid abuse? Why is Bonds the focus of all this? There is NO PROOF behind the inuendo and rumors. These are just small little reporters trying to build a "career" out of witchhunting. I've watched this story unfold and I really think it's more yellow journalism than factual reporting.

Bonds may have been guilty, along with half the league -- including pitchers. But remember, at the time these were LEGAL substances. I have no problem with going after the PROBLEM, but Bonds is not the problem; STEROIDS are the problem. Go after the steroids in a dignified manner, but there is no need for a poster boy.

I remember when Henry Aaron was chasing Ruth's record, despite daily "rumors" about most everything, and a few death threats to go along with it. Seems like that may be closer to what's going on here. If it wasn't this, it would be something else. People love to tear down the guy on top.

There's big money in baseball, which leads to international competition of the highest order for those few precious roster spots. People will do what they have to do to join that club. I guarentee you players, trainers and coaches are doing everything possible to gain advantage. And if that advantage becomes illegal, they stop.

Bonds has been cutting edge forever. Megavitamins (is that okay with you?), cutting edge nutrition, cutting edge exercise, visualization techniques, cutting edge philosophy, special hardwood bats -- that okay with you? -- that emphasize LIGHTNESS, creating explosive, unprecedented bathead speed...he's always been ahead of the curve. It's too bad reporters don't ask him those questions. They might learn something.

I admire Bonds tremendously, and always will, and it's not just the 90 homers and 191 RBIs he has with nine games to go for my team, the Lenticular Cloud People. I met him once, and he was cordial and friendly, almost child-like. I found my idol, Willie Mays, to be far more cranky. But that's his right. How would you like being alternately taunted and praised day in and day out by idiot strangers? How would you react?

I think Bonds' anger at the press is justified, and it's about time someone stood up to those parasitic punks. Good for him for not pandering to the public. He lives his life and speaks his mind. Good for him. I can't wait for HIS book.

It's too bad his titanic performances have been lost in all this. Reminds me of the purely political tearing down of Bill Clinton and his wayward (expletive). But Bonds has been stunning, almost beyond belief. Remember 2004? Remember that card? Weren't they testing for steroids then? Didn't he hit .362 with 45 home runs and 232 walks? 232 walks!!! That's mind boggling. So much so that I'm not sure an SOM card can't even accurately reflect that kind of season (you'll notice the 2004 record book for walks (Bonds, of course), comes nowhere near 232; it's simply not possible). A .609 OBP? Are you kidding me? These are staggering numbers, right up there with Wilt's 100 points and 50 PPG average, up there with the Babe, or Gehrig, or Cobb (do we kick him out of the HOF as well?). Do we start exhuming corpses and testing Rocky Colovito and Frank Howard for steroids?

Those last few remarkable seasons are what we should be talking about. Steroids just allow a person to recover more quickly from a workout. Steroids cannot hit a baseball. Steroids do nothing for intelligence, focus and eye-hand coordination. The amazing numbers put up by this man are what we, as baseball fans, should be buzzed about..

This is a witchhunt, pure and simple, a personal vendetta by a couple of small reporters who feel belittled by a superstar. Get over it. Move on. Watch the man's last season and appreciate what he has accomplished.

anyway, have a good day...[/quote:adadd7c2c5]



you are WAY off base in this post......as far as the reporters being "out to get" Barry, this maybe true, either way this IS astory

also...........there is PROOF that he did them!!!its called ADMITTING to a GRAND JURY that you used them..........

and they WERE ILLEGAL when he was taking them whether it was 1998 or 2005!!!! they were still ILLEGAL!!

[Drewdogs]

Hey Bro (hugedude is actually my brother,) gotta throw my thoughts into this one. I agree with the fact that of all the people who have been associated with steroids, Bonds has faced the biggest backlash and scrutiny. Is he any less guilty than anyone who took steroids? No, of course not. He is/was though, one of the top figures during the hr explosion and coupled with his less than friendly attitude toward reporters and the public, his association with steroids angered people at a greater level. I admit that I myself am not a Bonds fan and for reasons logical or not, I'm more reactive to his association with them. Is he any more guilty or less guilty than anyone who's taken steroids? No. Because Palmeiro's a nicer guy or Ryan Franklin's mediocre, their cheating should not be looked at any differently, and in this sense, the extra attention to Bonds seems quite unfair. Regardless though, i have a hard time turning a blind eye to an issue if there is evidence of illegal activity and so, if there is evidence of illegal activity by Bonds or anyone, i think it should be investigated.

I think it's not fair though to suggest that everybody was passive about this issue and chose to ignore it in the years leading up to it. Now certainly there were people who knew of the growing problem and it's not something that happened overnight, but i think that's part of what makes it hard. People can go crazy naturally in the gym and bulk up over a summer. People can go from 30hrs to 40hrs in a season without steroids. I think most people really believed this was happening. McGwire came into the majors hitting 49 dingers, so when he went on an hr rampage it didn't raise a ton of questions. As more and more players really starting just exploding physically and power hitters developed overnight, I think light switches just started turning on.

As a college sophomore when the Sosa/McGwire hr bashing year occurred, I trully did not think about roids and them being a factor, it just didn't enter my mind. (hugedude, you didn't say anything there either as i recall.) Now if there were people in the know who didn't say anything, or choose to avoid the issue, then they too were in the wrong. I just don't think it's right to suggest that people who are taking a stronger stance against steroids now, didn't do so before because they didn't want to make it an issue or because they liked the results. Had I known or even thought that steroids in the majors were as prevelant as they aparently were/are and had i known my favorite stars were taking them, my attitude towards them certainly would change. I can't stand cheaters, period! (I'm omitting the 2nd grade spelling test where i may have benefitted from a crush Amanda the girl next to me had, but if i could do it again Ms. Bernhart, I would not cheat on the word "ocean." :)

The problem with the "steroid" era is that it puts a cloud of suspicion over many of the great performers during this era. I'm sure a few probably did take illegal supplements, but there were also natural 35hr hitters. Frank Thomas was one of my favorite players when he was in his prime (his attitude the last few years has cause me to change my opinion,) and my brother likes to point him out and his huge body as a probable suspect for 'roid use. Look at how big he is, he must be on roids. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't, but now because he's big and plyed during this era, I can't help but look at his accomplishments and wonder. That's the worst thing now, this cloud covering players' accomplishments and it's what makes me really angry at those who did cheat. In some sense they've robbed these honest players and because there was no system of testing. People are innocent until proven guilty and I agree strongly with this and that's what's tough because there was no testing system in place and we can only speculate about players. It's a crappy situation.

When Ken Caminiti talked about steroid use, most people, including myself, dismissed it because of the source. Caminiti was already known for taking drugs and his career was over, and it seemed like a way to sell books. Whatever the actual numbers were, his allegations were right, but most people ignored what he said, not because they didn't want to know, but because they didn't consider him a reliable source. Major League Baseball should have come in line with testing standards seen around the rest of the world long before this became an issue. For whatever reason they didn't, I think it's ridiculous. I play professional volleyball now in Europe and I can't tell you how many times I have my teammates joke about this steroid issue and the slow response baseball's taken. Anyways, i hope it's a problem that baseball can take care of and I must say I feel there is hope they will.

A few endnotes. I can say with almost 100% certainty that my brother hugedude never took roids.His problem was never throwing gas or being strong! (just ask the little leaguers unlucky enough to get plunked) If there is an illegal pill that helps you throw strikes consistently, I can say that he has never taken it or, if he did, that it seriously does not work!! :) If such pill existed and my brother took it, i'd be laying out $11 million to get him on my strat team. (love ya bro) I myself have been tested twice here playing volleyball and am clean as a whistle, though my coach thinks i'm crazy for drinking Diet Coke and it's artificial sweeteners, he's probably right. One european guy in the league tested positive for a banned substance and it turned out it was from a simple type of cold medicine his girlfriend had brought over from her visit to the States which he had taken while sick. He was banned for the rest of the season and his team had to forfeit a bunch of matches. (forget the exact substance, but the next year it was taken off the banned substance list here, ie nothing significant. Our New Zeeland trainer couldn't believe it was still on the list.) Forgive the long response here, have too much free time here waiting for practice. I do know there were some long paragraphs and for this I apologize. Feel like i've been pretty non-aggressive and i respect everyone's opinion, these are just my mine. Adios.

[hugedude24]

It's nice to at least hear intelligent comments from everybody on the situation.

A few more things:

Ken Caminiti was obviously a sketchy source. Almost as sketchy as Jose Canseco (have you seen that picture of him in that mesh shirt?). People began believing after his book, why? Because the media finally decided to make it an issue, the huge issue it has become (rightly so, I will add). Perhaps this occurred because people were "ready" to hear it, whatever. You did not see these reporters beginning to investigate the situation in 1998 when they say it was obvious that Bonds was increasing his mass exponentially.

Two: It is a shame that this puts such a mark on baseball and a cloud over an entire era. I don't think that baseball has truly existed for an extended period of time without extenuating circumstances. For example, the banning of African-American players (during Ruth's era no less), the loss of some players like Williams to the wars America has been in. Bonds, like some of his peers, was a great ballplayer before he took roids (assuming he did), but we will never know how great he would have been in a league without them, including him.

Third: I knew back in the day that they were doing roids, or at least had an idea, but I'm not claiming to be holier than thou. Only to say that I did get excited about Mcwire's 61st blast. I can still describe where I was and what I did. If you remember Drew I used to talk about how Sosa was a skinny little no-power player when he came into the league (at least Bonds was a multiple MVP before). I'm not a reporter and did not blast them or refuse to watch, but I don't do it now either. I thought then, I know now and I'm not going to turn on the men who we made into heroes (like Mcwire) and supported their drug use by doing so.

Thanks bro for coming onto the boards and providing support for my own innocence. Drewdogs did not do steroids either, despite the claims about the pressure to get kills in the Swedish professional volleyball leagues. But in America, where boys dream of hitting that game-winning homer all their lives and hundreds of thousands of people give baseball a shot, we have to at least blame ourselves and the hero society we created a little for creating such pressures to perform at such a level.

One question for the forums, although it is difficult to think about now in this anti-steroid era, but in 1998 if you were a AAA player who lacked the pop in your bat or MPH on your fastball to make it into the big leagues, what would you have done in the steroid culture of baseball? Would you have done it to make it to the big leagues or to become a star versus a utility player? My brother is right, I didn't, my problem was control, not velocity. But honestly, if they could have helped me, I probably would have taken them then. Would you?

[Drewdogs]

I can understand the pressure and the possible benefits for those borderline players you mention, but no, i'd never take steroids, never.

[goredsox33]

not to get too off the subject...but all this Bonds talk must be driving Selig and MLB CRAZY with the WBC going on !!

[visick]

I'd like to bring up a point here that hasn't been made.
(Sorry ahead of time if I go off on a tangent)

I remember the strike in baseball not too long ago. I vowed NEVER to go to or watch another game again. You would think that these guys would have it all, playing a "game" for a living AND getting paid very well for it.
If I had the chance to play a "game" for a living, stay in shape AND get paid well for it, I would shut the hell up and love it without saying a word or complaining.

But this "game" is also a business, I do know that. Ratings were down for baseball, people were getting turned off to it and our national pastime was losing it's luster. (Hell, I know more kids now playing soccer than baseball...this is sad).

So Sosa and McGwire come along and hit the snot out of the ball. I recall once having Mac's rookie card and I saw Sosa play in his rookie year. My buddy actually thought at the time that Sosa would turn out to be a "poor man's Rickey Henderson". All of a sudden baseball is back.

Everywhere Sosa and McGwire go, the stadiums are packed. Merchandise sales are up. People are interested in baseball again. McGwire AND Sosa are as personable as can be.

Before I became a chiropractor, I was a personal trainer. I saw these guys "morph" into their bodies and IMMEDIATELY thought something was fishy. I know how the human body works, I understand that much. IMHO you would have to be blind not too suspect something.

Why would the powers that be in professional baseball wan't to stop this tidal wave that was occurring? Is it possible they wanted to turn the other cheek?

I do think that if Bonds was a more personable guy, all of this going on right now wouldn't be so blown up. Technically, he didn't do anything wrong, according to MLB rules. Yes IMO, he looked and sounded stupid in front of the grand jury. (He must think we are all stupid. How could anyone NOT know what goes into their bodies...)

I'm not a fan of Bonds, BUT I do respect him as a player. Why didn't all the other guys who have been suspended put up ridiculous #'s ? I'll tell you why...the guy can hit, flat out.

I'm really not sure where I'm going with all this. I'm just jotting down what's going on between my ears. :lol:

[goredsox33]

i wasnt blind to the fact that these guys bodies were growing at an abnormal rate... i was just naive to it................

as for "bonds wasnt doing anything wrong"..
YES he was he was using ILLEGAL steroids!!!!!

[hugedude24]

Damn straight socal, he could play before, and I think that is what some people are forgetting. That he won three MVPs (which at the time was the most ever, tied for) before any suspicious growth occured (now he has seven, by far the record).

In response to Drew's strong NO response to steroid use. I understand, he's got morals, brains and other options. Now imagine you're from the Dominican Republic, where you have to "hit your way off the island" (ie Vlad never taking walks) and baseball is your livlihood, your only one. What do you do then when you're on the cusp of being out, like Sosa? For most of these players, and U.S. players who leave right out of high school and have been told baseball is their ticket since little league, what other options do they have? I'm not saying it's right to do, I'm just saying, "I understand."

[visick]

FWIW-

Steroids were not tested for by MLB when Bonds was stroking, hence it wasn't "illegal".