Everyone, even a jerk like Barry Bonds, is innocent until proven guilty. This is still America. He deserves a trial.
Actually, why is nobody trying him? Considering his admission to the Grand Jury? Was this part of a plea bargain?
BONDS BOMB
by Play By The Rules » Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:15 pm
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by blueiguana » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:20 pm
I think a lot of this has to do with Bonds's personality, and the general distaste that the press has for him (which he brings on himself, certainly). Players in the 1960's and 1970's (and beyond) used illegal amphetamines. McGwire and Sosa pretty clearly were using something. Yet they were given a pass by the press. No one asserted that greenies were cheating. When Bonds starts breaking records, all you hear is that he cheated, and that everyone should be alarmed. I think that the press has influenced public opinion to a great extent, not the other way around.
In my opinion, Bonds did not cheat, unless it is shown that he continued to use steroids after they were banned (admittedly, that seems likely). Prior to the ban, steroids were allowed by baseball, so their use did not break any written rules. Nor did use apparently break any unwritten rules -- there was no general outcry from the players to stop steroid use; indeed, the union fought the ban. Yes, they are illegal, but so are a host of other drugs that players use frequently without being labelled cheaters. If we consided use of greenies or marajuana to be cheating, then 85% of baseball players and 90% of NBA players would be cheaters!
Of course, if Bonds continued to use the steroids after the ban, then he was cheating, and he should be punished accordingly if he tests positive. If he were caught enough to get a lifetime ban, I would say that he should be denied the Hall of Fam, just like Pete Rose and Joe Jackson (who broke an explicit rule of baseball). Otherwise, treat his numbers however you want, but he was not a cheater.
In my opinion, Bonds did not cheat, unless it is shown that he continued to use steroids after they were banned (admittedly, that seems likely). Prior to the ban, steroids were allowed by baseball, so their use did not break any written rules. Nor did use apparently break any unwritten rules -- there was no general outcry from the players to stop steroid use; indeed, the union fought the ban. Yes, they are illegal, but so are a host of other drugs that players use frequently without being labelled cheaters. If we consided use of greenies or marajuana to be cheating, then 85% of baseball players and 90% of NBA players would be cheaters!
Of course, if Bonds continued to use the steroids after the ban, then he was cheating, and he should be punished accordingly if he tests positive. If he were caught enough to get a lifetime ban, I would say that he should be denied the Hall of Fam, just like Pete Rose and Joe Jackson (who broke an explicit rule of baseball). Otherwise, treat his numbers however you want, but he was not a cheater.
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by goredsox33 » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:44 pm
[quote:8ca02d031f="socalchiro"]FWIW-
Steroids were not tested for by MLB when Bonds was stroking, hence it wasn't "illegal".[/quote:8ca02d031f]
totally incorrect
steroids have been an ILLEGAL substance for many years
it is illegal to possess them without a prescription....
Steroids were not tested for by MLB when Bonds was stroking, hence it wasn't "illegal".[/quote:8ca02d031f]
totally incorrect
steroids have been an ILLEGAL substance for many years
it is illegal to possess them without a prescription....
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by the splinter » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:26 pm
Allow me to sightly alter the direction of this thread....
All legalities aside....
Steroids physically allow the body to perform beyond normal capabilities right?
Brian Roberts wears contacts that filter out certain light and allow him to pick up the ball in flight faster and clearer...this allows his body to perform beyond normal capabilities. He does not need them to correct vision problems they are strictly to improve his ability to see a baseball. He enjoyed a career season this past year. Is this cheating?
There has been talk of Josh Beckett having extra skin grafted on to his finger tips to prevent the blistering that has palgued his career. This is physically altering his body to perform beyond normal capabilities. He does not need this procedure to live a normal life it would be only to enhance his ability to throw a baseball. Would this be cheating?
All legalities aside....
Steroids physically allow the body to perform beyond normal capabilities right?
Brian Roberts wears contacts that filter out certain light and allow him to pick up the ball in flight faster and clearer...this allows his body to perform beyond normal capabilities. He does not need them to correct vision problems they are strictly to improve his ability to see a baseball. He enjoyed a career season this past year. Is this cheating?
There has been talk of Josh Beckett having extra skin grafted on to his finger tips to prevent the blistering that has palgued his career. This is physically altering his body to perform beyond normal capabilities. He does not need this procedure to live a normal life it would be only to enhance his ability to throw a baseball. Would this be cheating?
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by visick » Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:33 pm
Great points splinter... :lol:
It's not illegal so it's alright huh?
I was listening to a local sports talk show out here in SoCal. The topic, of course, was Bonds. Someone called in and brought up a point that splinter brought up.
This spawned into something else. Everyone recall the Tommy John surgery? The surgeons go in and (long story short) tighten the tendons around the elbow. Alot of pitchers have had this surgery WITH great results. ie. More velocity/less pain than before.
Suppose some minor league pitcher with good stuff and a less than average fastball wants/elects to have this surgery? He "could" have a better fastball than before.
This is OK? Or is this cheating as well?
It's not illegal so it's alright huh?
I was listening to a local sports talk show out here in SoCal. The topic, of course, was Bonds. Someone called in and brought up a point that splinter brought up.
This spawned into something else. Everyone recall the Tommy John surgery? The surgeons go in and (long story short) tighten the tendons around the elbow. Alot of pitchers have had this surgery WITH great results. ie. More velocity/less pain than before.
Suppose some minor league pitcher with good stuff and a less than average fastball wants/elects to have this surgery? He "could" have a better fastball than before.
This is OK? Or is this cheating as well?
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by Rigged Splits » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:40 pm
Splinter, you could argue that Beckett and Roberts were now able to play up to their natural abilities.
We're missing the whole point about steroid abuse. Steroids are illegal because they're dangerous. I know some people don't think they are but I'll go with dangerous. I'll go under the assumption that the reasons some or most players that don't use them are that they're dangerous and/or illegal. Otherwise they would be just another training aid. Bonds used them because he was jealous of McGwire who used them. All the way down to high school, maybe even sooner, athletes are using steroids because they have to be able to compete with other athletes. It goes from not making the high school team to not getting a scholarship to not making the pros to not making the majors. The ones that don't use steroids are getting screwed by those who are using because they don't want to take chances with their health.
Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, etc. are doing a disservice (if that's a word it's probably being way too kind) to any athlete that refuses to risk his/her health because they feel they have to compete with these knuckleheads.
My son isn't the greatest athlete, and I do not want him to try steroids in order to compete but with the attitudes of MLB, it's players, and our own rationalizations in this argument we're not sending a clear message to our children. Stay away from steroids.
We're missing the whole point about steroid abuse. Steroids are illegal because they're dangerous. I know some people don't think they are but I'll go with dangerous. I'll go under the assumption that the reasons some or most players that don't use them are that they're dangerous and/or illegal. Otherwise they would be just another training aid. Bonds used them because he was jealous of McGwire who used them. All the way down to high school, maybe even sooner, athletes are using steroids because they have to be able to compete with other athletes. It goes from not making the high school team to not getting a scholarship to not making the pros to not making the majors. The ones that don't use steroids are getting screwed by those who are using because they don't want to take chances with their health.
Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, etc. are doing a disservice (if that's a word it's probably being way too kind) to any athlete that refuses to risk his/her health because they feel they have to compete with these knuckleheads.
My son isn't the greatest athlete, and I do not want him to try steroids in order to compete but with the attitudes of MLB, it's players, and our own rationalizations in this argument we're not sending a clear message to our children. Stay away from steroids.
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by the splinter » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:22 pm
[quote:6746041dd3]able to play up to their natural abilities. [/quote:6746041dd3]
If their natural abilities are so good then why do they need the described enhancements?
If their natural abilities are so good then why do they need the described enhancements?
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