BONDS BOMB

[LA Bear]

Bottomline: Barry cheated. It doesn't matter who else cheated. They are not the ones passing Mays and on the verge of passing Ruth and Aaron in the record books. I'm happy that we live in a day that people are not afraid to report the facts. Books and stories like this one serve as a great examples to todays youth on what not to do. My 10 year old son put it in the proper perspective: "Barry's a great player, but you cannot claim he's better thean Mays, Ruth or Aaron, because he took drugs." 8)

[Minoso Express]

Bottomline: Most of you are taking the word of two San Francisco Chronicle reporters as fact when it is, at the moment, simply unverifiable reportage. Where did these guys get their information? Ex girlfriends and roids "dealers" who stand to be indicted one day for illegal activity. Do you think this book lays the groundwork for cutting a deal for those guys? You bet it does.

Am I saying Bonds never took steroids? No. Show me the power-hitting player-- ANY power-hitting player-- in the 90s (or the 80s, for that matter) who never took steroids in any concoction, legal or otherwise, and I'll show you a liar.

Baseball has always had a list of banned substances. Are we going to banish HOFers of earlier eras because they juiced up on caffeine and nicotine in such quantities that their blood levels would have resembled those of junkies? You think their performance levels would have suffered had they not been running on what amounts to a simulated speed kick? Like hell they would have suffered. How about all those HOFers who snorted coke in the 70s and 80s? You think Keith Hernandez and a few others are the only guys who did it? No way. They're the only guys who will admit to it.

What I am suggesting is that it is impossible to penalize players like Palmeiro, Bonds and McGwire (much as I despise McGwire, that terminally overrated lug) for enhancing their NATURAL abilities as hitters when this has been going on in one form or another since Day One of baseball.

I repeat: the three to four-year period the SF Chronicle reporters allege that Bonds took steroids in no way negates his already sterling Hall credentials. No one should take that away from him.

As for the "cheating" debate... please. Cheating is as integral a part of baseball as whining. To pretend otherwise is nonsensical. Let's strip George Brett of his plaque in Cooperstown because he used a juiced up bat, ok? You think he would have had all those hits without it-- or you think he used pine tar or any other bat popper just that once? While we're at, let's take away Jim Palmer's plaque too because he-- famously-- petitioned HOF voters throughout his career with dinners, booze, dames and other "bribes."

That's it-- maybe Barry should start gladhanding a few of those guys. You'd see opinion on the roid scandal dissipate pretty fast. And if you don't believe it, there's a bridge I'd like to sell you....

[PossibleJohn]

The "right or wrong" with this dicsussion, debate, scandal, whatever, has nothing to do with records, performance, competitive comparisons of any sort. It has nothing to do with whether these journalists are well-intentioned or not.

The issue is reducible to the health of the kids who dream to be ballplayers.

If a crime like doping is not investigated, litigated, punished upon conviction, then you're going to have kids doping in order to stay competitive with other kids doping, growing up to be men doping in order to stay competitive with other men doping.

For what? Spectacles? Sales? Records?

[tersignf]

Exactly PJ.

[tersignf]

So there was a book written about Brett's juiced up bat? If you're referring to pine tar being above the mark--give me a break. How does that compare to taking an illegal substance? Pure and simple--baseball needs to clean its act up and it has to start at the top.

I'm glad McGwire has to cry through pain now. Those guys deserve to have their bodies break down. Good on em and good riddance.
I think it's funny. Losers who have no other self worth except to hit a baseball. Can't maintain a marraige, a family or anything of substantitive value to society. But they sure as hell thrive in their sheltered world of a kid's game since they can justify their lack of morality with "but everyone's doing it". I hear that out of my 13 year kid. I guess I just tell him to give in. Pathetic. McGwire's smart enough to work in a car wash maybe. But he may cry when he runs out of soap. And Bonds who knows. At least Pete Rose earned 100% of his stats and played hard every day. And he won't ever be in the hall. Pretty inconsistent if Bonds or McGwire et al get anywhere near Cooperstown.

[hugedude24]

Pretty funny tersignf to call the players "Losers who have no other self worth except to hit a baseball" when we are the fans who give them that worth. Who's going to not watch a MLB baseball game or play Strat-o-Matic this year because some of the players used roids? After all we pay their salaries and their union dues by doing both. Codependents, all of us.

[visick]

My 2 cents and then I'm done...

Selig and MLB got caught with their paints down, IMHO.

You actually think they didn't know for sure that steroids were the thing a few years ago? If so, I've got some land to sell you in south Florida or a nice bridge in N.Y. for you to buy.

In order to save face, they are now going to go after the "poster child" for all of baseball's problems...Bonds.

Oh and BTW- If you want to learn more about me, go interview an old girlfriend or 2. This seems to be a logical thing to do. :?

[CHADGUMM]

Sorry, but you can't go back and test whether players in the past were using steroids. And even if you could, so what? What would you do, fine the guy for breaking a law (or are you going to absurdly compare using steroids to murder like some have suggested).

So either you simply implicate everyone and call it the "steroids era" and move on or imlicate no one, move on, and MLB can blame themselves for not instituting the proper rules some years earlier. Otherwise it's a witchhunt focused on a few players (which only Bonds happens to still be an active player) which is ridiculous. If baseball and the fans didn't want someone using steroids to break records, well then maybe they should have done something sooner rather than passivly sitting back and allowing it to blatently happen in front of their eyes and now start crying like babies now that certain records may be broken by players that used steroids.

I can understand the anger directed toward Bonds (and he certainly makes himself an easy target for that anger), but wanting Bonds' head on a platter and make him pay for this whole "steroid era" is completely short-sighted and stupid.

[Minoso Express]

<<So there was a book written about Brett's juiced up bat? If you're referring to pine tar being above the mark--give me a break. How does that compare to taking an illegal substance? >>

I'll tell you how. Cheating is cheating, right? At least if one follows the self-righteous and sentimental arguments put forth on this thread. If most of you are going to invoke the "health of our kids who dream" argument or "Bonds is a cheat" argument, then you must apply the logic to ALL cheaters-- self-mutilators (for that is what steroid use amounts to), bat juicers, sandpaper abusers, spitballers, other drug users and the whole lot of 'em.

Am I advocating this? Absolutely not. I'm simply illuminating a pretty major flaw in those arguments.

Mav1, you're right. Thanks for a reasoned contribution to this debate.