24 team keeper

[tcochran]

hey mike, you can sign up at http://forums.sportingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=571305

[kimkrichbaum2]

When you said[quote:42e9324f57]]Divisional assignments for each season be determined by the final win/loss records of the previous season. [/quote:42e9324f57]
Does that mean the top 6 will be in one division, the next 6 will be one division, etc.? If so, that would somewhat alleviate one of my main concerns about the league, and I may sign up.[/quote]

[cshannajr]

[quote:0355f75c76="litangel"]When you said[quote:0355f75c76]]Divisional assignments for each season be determined by the final win/loss records of the previous season. [/quote:0355f75c76]
Does that mean the top 6 will be in one division, the next 6 will be one division, etc.? If so, that would somewhat alleviate one of my main concerns about the league, and I may sign up.[/quote:0355f75c76][/quote]

Yes. That's exactly how it would work. I am also working on a draft order that would be similar to the NBA, but not exactly...details to come.

[jmccully61]

I am a little worried about roster dumping under one specific scenario. That scenario is what if an owner decides that after the current season he no longer will participate in future seasons? As a result, he does not care about his players, or the end results of the season. Therefore, since roster dumping is only maintained under integrity what prevents him from dumping his roster? I understand the Salary Cap will prevent a "Blotted Roster", but in SOM History there appears to be plenty of undervalued cards that could be aquired, and effect the outcome of a season.

This leads me to my 2nd point. What are the rules when I person decides he no longer wants to be in the league? Is there a waiting list for the next owner? Does that owner inherit the previous owner's roster?

I know that I am being very picky, but I believe these are some things to think about.

[Ninersphan]

[quote:6df0eb8a0b="dreamingtree#41"]I am a little worried about roster dumping under one specific scenario. That scenario is what if an owner decides that after the current season he no longer will participate in future seasons? As a result, he does not care about his players, or the end results of the season. Therefore, since roster dumping is only maintained under integrity what prevents him from dumping his roster? I understand the Salary Cap will prevent a "Blotted Roster", but in SOM History there appears to be plenty of undervalued cards that could be aquired, and effect the outcome of a season.

This leads me to my 2nd point. What are the rules when I person decides he no longer wants to be in the league? Is there a waiting list for the next owner? Does that owner inherit the previous owner's roster?

I know that I am being very picky, but I believe these are some things to think about.[/quote:6df0eb8a0b]

Okay I'm not in this league, but roster dumping in a keeper league is almost impossible because they only way to move players once drafted is through trades. Now that's not to say that lopsided trades won't happen but if a pattern developes, I'm sure the commisioner will step in and nullify trades. If you are worried about dumping and siging free agents though, this isn't an issue as you can't pick guys up once you have your draft completeted. Players that are free agents remain free agents until the next draft, be it a supplemental draft between seasons or the spring draft the following year.
As for replacement owners, usually it's FCFS. The commisioner will put out feelers to guys he knows, or make a post on the boards and the first guy that comes running, provided there aren't any problems with him, is "awarded" the abandonded team, at least that's how it's worked in the leagues I run.
And again, this is going to be the biggest problem in setting up a 24 man league IMHO. NONE of the 12 man leagues I'm in have made it without at least 2 owners leaving at some point. One leagues has had half the teams abandoneed and taken over by new owners. I wish you guys luck getting this thing off the ground, but I'm just not sure you are going to find 24 DEDICATED individuals to pull it off.

[cshannajr]

Thanks Niners...well said. Just an FYI for everyone, I assumed everyone would understand that this would be an unlimited salaray cap league. It is a keeper afterall and we should not punish owners for making good moves and improving their teams.

[kimkrichbaum2]

I am confident enough in the league I am willing to join. There is a lot about the concept I like. I am not so concerned about roster dumping, the NBA style draft choices which reduce the incentive to lose, will help. In the case or a manager who is leaving the league, I believe the commissioner has the right to veto trades that are blatantly unfair, and I trust he or they will do so.
But there is still one potential danger I would like to see addressed. I think that part of our current structure could lead to a lot of managers leaving over time, which will be doubly hard in this league. Specifically, I think that we are drafting and keeping such a high percentage of the player base, both carded players, and prospects, that if an individual has a bad initial draft, it could take five years of fairly successful maneuvering to get back in contention. Now given the divisional system they could always luck into winning a weak division, but it is likely to take a loooong time to turn a lousy team into a good one.
The reason is that in normal keeper drafts, there are a certain amount of "surprises". Guys who a year earlier, no one would have thought was a keeper or a prospect, who are then available in the draft. Guys like Randy Wells, Garrett Jones, McGehee. Or surprises who have cards from the year before, like Feldman, Piniero, Reynolds, Miguel Montero. These are the players that allow owners with a rough first draft to recover, maybe not in a year, but in two or three. But if we have such complete coverage with the amount of players we draft, the amount we keep, and the amount of prospects we have, than all these guys, or at least most will already be drafted, And there will be fewer surprises and less significant ones, leaving to a lack of opportunities to turn your team around quickly. In a way it will be just like MLB, where Kansas City will not become a juggernaut without years of effort and some luck. There is something good about rewarding long term effort and planning,
But I fear in a Strat League that managers are not that patient, and once they realize there is little opportunity to actually improve their teams in the short run, they will leave.
We could change this situation in several ways, One, I think 35 players is too many to have on our rosters, I think we should stick with 30, so there are more players left over who may be next year's surprises. Also I think we should limit keepers to 20, or even 15, rather than 25, leaving enough opportunity for the bottom teams to equalize themselves, and for the top dogs to have to make tough priority decisions. And also possibly limiting the number of prospect picks to 2 per year rather than 4. (This is the change I am least excited about, I like having a good number of players from the minors, but I would change it if it meant bringing balance to the league,)
Currently in a 12 team league there are about 410 cared players not chosen. In a 24 team league with 35 players on roster, there will only be 50, with 30 players on a roster there will be 170.
Currently in a 12 team league if teams keep the maximum, there are 360 players kept, keeping 25 in a 24 team league there will be 600, with 20 there will be 480.
I think part of the idea of this league, is that there will be a shallower talent base, but I think we need to make sure there is enough left over, to give a chance that a manger can improve the quality of their team in a reasonable length of time.

[cshannajr]

A lot of great points litangel. I am open to the following changes to the rules:

1) One prospect draft of 2 players per year. This draft will be held after the Spring Free agent draft each year.

2) Roster size of a max of 30 players. You may keep a max of 20 and a min of 15 each year.

3) Only carded players may be drafted in both the Spring Free agent draft, as well as the summer supplemental draft. If an uncarded player is on your roster, you may keep him. For example, if you draft Brandon Webb in our 1st season this fall and he does not have a card next year, you may keep him. However, if he goes undrafted this fall, he may not be drafted in the spring if he does not have a card.

4)NBA style draft order, yet to be determined.

Please let me know what the rest of you think about these changes.
Thanks.

[RiojaDave]

Hi all,

Cshannajr, you wanted to know what we think. Well....
I am in favor of all four things.

1.) 2 prospects, YES
2.) Roster max 30, Keeping 15min-20max, YES
3.)Only carded players, YES
4.)NBA draft, YES. Could this be done by having someone run random numbers, as is done for some leagues?

and I am for NO-DH.

Just throwing this out, could there be some kind of salary/player limits for the keepers. For example

max 20 player, min 15 players and max $90m and min $45m.

Dave

[tcochran]

1.) 2 prospects, YES
2.) Roster max 30, Keeping 15min-20max, YES
3.) Only carded players, YES
4.) NBA draft, YES

and I am for NO-DH

and NO salary limit