Summer - Winter Keeper League Chat

[tcochran]

[quote:cbc05d2f87="JMP 1"]I drafted my team thinking I would get one of the top two picks in the prospect draft.[/quote:cbc05d2f87]

Hey Jay, doesn't this statement conflict with your vote of NO on whether or not to hold the prospect draft now?

[kaviksdad]

[quote:d454080de6="tcochran"][quote:d454080de6="kaviksdad"]As far as Chris Carpenter goes, he is not a prospect! He has MLB service for a number of years already. [b:d454080de6]Prospects cannot have any MLB service prior to the current 2009 season.[/b:d454080de6]

In no league I've ever participated in has any player with any prior years MLB service be considered a prospect.[/quote:d454080de6]

Hey KD, I thought I was old guy whose memory was likely to fade!

In the Finders Keepers League, Carpenter was pick #4. In fact, you selected Jeff Niemann as your last prospect pick, even though he had 16 IP in 2008.

I borrowed the prospect section of the rules for SWKL from the Finders Keepers' ones that you and I both used there. As with the fact of the draft itself, however, I would be happy to go along with a super majority of 8 managers who wanted to change this rule, too.

Let's see how the YES/NO prospect draft vote comes out and then we can tackle this question, too, okay?[/quote:d454080de6]

T - that is the only league that has that distinction about cards in the rules. All the others I'm in do not consider any veteran a prospect. I mispoke in saying ALL the leagues -- it should have been all BUT the Finders league. Since that one isn't mine, or identically based on all the other keepers I'm in, I consider that an exception.

But if you want veterans to be considered prospects that's your call -- it's your league.

[kaviksdad]

The basic reasoning for not allowing veterans in the prospect draft is to beef up the spring free agent draft. When uncarded veterans go in the prospect draft that dilutes the free agent pool, making the free agent draft less likely to provide those gems that can really help a bad team.

And that's all I've got to say on the matter. Whatever goes is fine with me, and I'll butt out of the discussions.

[Sknsfan]

[quote:b6251b64ac]If we cancel the prospect draft we play the new set without a great set of rookies. Some of the players who qualify as rookies had just enough service time to get cards in last year's set. Others did not. [/quote:b6251b64ac]

Actually JMP, we would improve the Free Agent Draft in the 2009 set when we draft next spring, not lesson the number of good rookies when we play that set.

Unless I'm mistaken in my understanding, we'll be playing a Winter season with the 2008 set.

Then, when we go into the 2009 Spring league, we would have to drop down to 25-30 players and we have the FA draft. The FA draft would be in reverse order of record. It's at this time that all players in the set not already signed to a team would become available.

We've (unintentionally I'm sure) upset the balance of this league by having our first draft be after the actual 2009 season has finished. By the very nature of it, we are all aware of whom had a good season and whom didn't.

Had we had this initial draft before the season started (or even shortly after the beginning of) I can pretty much guarantee we wouldn't have seen picks like this:

9 - Zack Grienke
15 - Troy Tulowitski
16 - Felix Hernandez
18 - Jair Jurrjens
26 - Pablo Sandoval
28 - Matt Cain

While these players would have been chosen eventually in a draft this deep, I can honestly say i don't believe people would have wasted early picks on them like they did.

By plucking the projected talent now in the prospect draft, that reduces the talent pool for the FA draft in the spring, and consequently aren't really prospects by any definition since we are all aware of the potential value of their cards for next season.

A prospect to me means someone who has future potential yet to be realized.

I'm up to about 8 cents now.

[JMP1]

OOPS!!! I misread the question. I thought it was do we want to cancel the draft. So I am changing my vote.


1. KNIGHT
2. tcochran - YES
3. Mike Lopp
4. Lumbercompanysouth
5. joekendall - YES
6. TomPierce
7. dreamingtree#41
8. PracticalDoc
9. kaviksdad - NO
10. Sknsfan - NO
11. JMP1 - YES
12. Hk Mossy

[JMP1]

SKNSFAN, I think you get at least 25 cents so you got a long way to go! :P

I will be fine with whatever the league agrees upon. My only point is this. With my spot in the draft (#11) I got to a point where several of the superstars and top rookies were already picked. I took guys like Ervin Santana and Matt Capps thinking I could use them for one season and then use my picks in the prospect draft to replace them after the first season.

I may have a great first season, but then may be in a bad position going forward. Had I known we may not have a prospect draft I would have drafted differently in a few slots.

In the end, its a game and I play for fun... its just a little frustrating when you work a strategy based on the rules and then are faced with a change.

Let's clarify what we are doing so we can finish the draft and... PLAY BALL!

[tcochran]

In reviewing recent picks on the draft site, I see that 7 of us have made "live" (non-proxy) picks after the draft restarted.

In addition, 3 others have been active in this discussion thread since then and can thus be deemed to be aware, too.

Only 2 managers -- [b:605f30522e]tompierce and mikelopp[/b:605f30522e] -- have neither made "live" picks nor posted here since the restart. In addition, they have not sent me their email addresses, so they may not even be aware that we have had a few issues to work out.

[b:605f30522e]Tom and Mike, please let us know that you are prepared for the 2-hour clock to be running again.
[/b:605f30522e]
Thanks!

[JOSEPHKENDALL]

I agree that it would not be fair as stated by JMP1 to change the rules now.

I also agree that if we use the prospect draft as stated that there will not be any free agents worth anything for the bottom teams to use to get better the next year. They will only be able to use the cards that are in 2008 that will get much better in 2009 to better the team.

It looks as though we need to determine now what a prospect is. Then we can tackle the problem of do we have the draft now or postpone. We obviously could state that prospects are those that qualify within the rules kaviksdad stated.

Thoughts or suggestions?

[kaviksdad]

[quote:a626160653="JMP 1"]SKNSFAN, I think you get at least 25 cents so you got a long way to go! :P

I will be fine with whatever the league agrees upon. My only point is this. [b:a626160653]With my spot in the draft (#11) I got to a point where several of the superstars and top rookies were already picked. I took guys like Ervin Santana and Matt Capps thinking I could use them for one season and then use my picks in the prospect draft to replace them after the first season.[/b:a626160653]
I may have a great first season, but then may be in a bad position going forward. Had I known we may not have a prospect draft I would have drafted differently in a few slots.

In the end, its a game and I play for fun... [b:a626160653]its just a little frustrating when you work a strategy based on the rules and then are faced with a change.[/b:a626160653]
Let's clarify what we are doing so we can finish the draft and... PLAY BALL![/quote:a626160653]

This was my draft philosophy and my feelings as well.

[jmlopp]

My address is jmlopp@mindspring.com
I thought I sent it about 7 days ago....sorry.
Getting old.

I would prefer not to redraft.

I am open to the will of the masses.

8-)

I have proxies through the end of round 28. This should be ok.