*Starters, sure, but what about RP ???

[the splinter]

All valid points..

however....

its about performance/salary= value...and how its applied( as we all know this age old formula effecively turns STRAT from a reality game to a "what if" game).

Go back to 99 with Garces and Shumpert

Both get manipulated within the rules of the game to vastly out perform RL stats

Shumpert, in the 3 seasons I just finished lead the league in 2bs twice and second by 1 in the third....320 avg...21 HR's...52 2b's ...110+ RBI in [b:51acd5ad8b]670 PA's[/b:51acd5ad8b]

For the ability to massage/manipulate/coerse these numbers from this card you pay the going rate of 7+M

Garces(whom I use often) is the same

230+ innings 12+wins...15+ svs...era 2.50+ to 4.00..he can pitch 3+ good innings every other day

For this you pay 5+M

I could choose to play Alfonso at 2B who performs at a high level...or I could spend my 5+M on a SP who can log those 230IP for me by going 6+ every 4th day (Mussina, Colon etc etc)...so for the same money+/- I could have cards that conform to reality and have the potential for equal results

If its just about the reality of it then why punish Garces and not Shumpert...both are cards that under the rules of the game can be manipulated to overachieve and are thus valued accordingly by salary..a salary that is commiserate with other cards that perform equally in RL

If you start capping cards...any cards...you add a whole new factor to the game as it is played now. And any adjustment to one side has to made made to the other.

How would you start capping hitters....say upon reaching their RL PA's all injuries are 15 games?

Now you have Garces at 5+M with limited effectiveness and Shumpert at 7+M missing an additional 10-15+ games. Now neither is worth the salary assigned to them.

So now...in effect with any card capping must come a salary adjustment of equal impact

[SGTD]

I am in a 1999 league where Billy Wagner has logged 162 IP after 123 games. I cannot figure out the Super Reliever format. Someday I will. SGT D

[SGTD]

Follow-up on Wagner, he has more IP than all SP but one and that one leads him by 1 IP. SGT D

[AeroDave10]

This is a game, fellas, not real life. We can't simulate everything without vastly changing the rules.

In 2009, my Cleveland Indians sent 23 different men up to the plate (excluding the pitchers ABs). They also sent 29 different men to the mound. Why don't we play like that?

Assuming every team used around 40-50 players, that creates a database of 1200-1500 players who wore a major league uniform. In SOM we use only about 300 (12 x 25) of the 900 or so available players. How "realistic" is that?

In SOM, every team has exactly the same amount of payroll. Is that really the case in MLB? I think not.

While these arguments to change the rules and cap the number of innings or at bats a player can have may be interesting, they are ultimately meaningless because we just need to accept the fact that SOM cannot simulate every bit of real life, particularly when it comes to player usage.


Dave

[The Biomechanical Man]

Besides pitchers starting every fourth game, the other unrealistic part is that pitchers suffer [u:c063967120]minimal injuries[/u:c063967120] in Strat. In real-life, GMs are concerned with their pitchers having season-long injuries (otherwise I wouldn't have a real-life job). In our online game we are much more concerned about injuries to the hitters than the pitchers, which is not realistic.

We have to realize that a lot of these issues (*SP, etc.) are issues for Strat-O-Matic, while other issues (player pricing) are issues for Sporting News. The super reliever issue can really be addressed by either Strat-O-Matic or Sporting News.

Oh, and yes, I think we should all agree to call the new year "twenty ten."

[edgecitytx]

I wish we had links to all the past versions of this argument that have taken place annually then you guys could catch up and see that it's all been said before.

When you let me have 29 pitchers during a season, I'll gladly reduce the innings of my stud reliever and I'll support pitchers injuries. But first tell me how that's going to work in this format. Off days? Same thing. Remember TSN/Strat has to appeal to the casual player as well and if it's too complex, we'll end up playing among a handful of us and the site will shut down.

"Gaming the game" took place a few years ago when some people figured out how to channel ALL of their relief innings to their Stud, keeping several pitchers who were too restricted to pitch any innings at all. That's been fixed.

Today, if you're in a hitters' park and you follow the default settings, your top relievers WILL pitch 200 innings, unless you 'game the game' to stop them, like I do on the Tour. R2s and R3s can pitch over 200 innings under the rules of Strat (216 for an R2), and I'd do that sitting across a table from you, unless we were playing in a restricted innings league and to do that rosters have to be expanded.

I think the argument here is often between those who see this as Baseball, and those who see it as a Math game, all about probability, dice rolls, and numbers on a card.

The results aren't going to be realistic under any circumstances because this game isn't set up that way. The funny thing about the *SP argument is that Strat uses it to produce a MORE realistic result but they're looking at an overall season, not individual games. (The same with 'clutch' hitting.)