Bernie-Collusion issue: Sincere thanks for dealing with it!

[MARCPELLETIER]

Las Vegas Aces helloo (176) 39 9 .813

Ridiculous!!! What does TSN need before seeing that the FAIR-PLAY of the game has not been respected.

Again, if TSN does not want to accuse someone of collusion, it only need to restore back unfair trades. Must be easy to do.

I think I will petition something if TSN does not act soon.

[ROBERTLATORRE]

[quote:915e2d0524="Artie412"]Has anyone thought of the fact that what this guy might be doing is taking a second team, and running that one as his "swap" team. Is that possible?

He drafts for both teams, then simply trades or dumps and picks up what he needs from the other?

While "unprofitable" (because it would cost TWO credits to pull off), if he then wins a championship with the beneficiary team, then he is one credit ahead.

Has anyone checked the IDs of the OTHER team that he pulls this with?

I'm just saying.[/quote:915e2d0524]

TSN should be able to track the traffic of both user IDs back to an IP address through reports on their servers/firewalls. I'll bet my new Yankee World Series Champion hat its the same IP address for both managers.

[voovits]

Unless Bernie has been contacted a second time on the matter he's probably not even aware that this thread is going on. I assume he considered the issue closed after his initial response and has not been keeping up on this discussion.

[ROBERTMAVIN]

[quote:e43227b18c="latorrer"]Have you gotten [b:e43227b18c]ANY [/b:e43227b18c]response back from TSN besides on the 23rd in this thread?

A lot have been played since you brought this up, completely ruining any opportunity to resolve this fairly for the remaining managers in the league.

Bob, check you PMs, I've sent you one.[/quote:e43227b18c]

Bernie is usually pretty good at responding to issues, but I have not heard back from him as yet other than he may have considered his first on this item as his last word

when the objection was registered, there were only 30 games played in the league. so yes, more games have been played int eh meantime. and not sure if Helloo/Aces has had any losses since then, he is currently 10-0 in his last 10 games.

Thanks got the additional info !

[Terry101]

TSN should step up and give everyone in the league a free play and dump that slimeball from playing.

[gbrookes]

Re running 2 teams in the same league, and other collusive/abusive behaviour:

It should be part of the regular league sign-up computer diagnostics to prevent the same "owner" from having 2 teams. Having said that, even that procedure could be circumvented by registering separately as 2 separate owners with separate ID's etc.

Bottom line is, at a minimum, that kind of language in an email should be immediate grounds for removal from a league. Possibly the best remedial solution would be for a TSN rep to take over ownership of the team, with a stand pat mandate - EXCEPT to remediate the apparent harm done from inappropriate player transactions. Possibly the easiest solution would be to simply release to free agency the ill-gotten players, with suitable advance notice to the other owners. The advance notice would give the other owners some opportunity to work out further remedial actions, in a sportsmanlike way.

Although harder to prove, if enough owners in a league believe that the actions were collusive or against fair play, there should be some kind of binding resolution possible by the other owners. Since it should only be used in fairly extreme and obvious circumstances, it should probably require some high % of approval from the other owners, by clear email vote (yes/no). Maybe 75% even - i.e. 75% or more approval by vote.

These stories make me think that the idea of peer approval of trades IS a good idea, despite my earlier reservations about the idea. Maybe that is a simple solution - although I think it should be made clear to all gamers that this is a procedure (veto) to be used in very extreme situations - it should not deteriorate to some form of additional gaming strategy. A veto should also require a high approval % - maybe 75% or more.

Those are my thoughts. I think changes are required, base on these events.

Regards,
Geoff Brookes

[Jerlins]

The problem with a veto application is that some, if not most, would use it to deny what is a very acceptable trade for the sole purpose of blocking a trade they think would improve a team they are competing against division wise. There are ways to to eliminate collusion. It can be programmed, though not worth TSN's time or money to do so, especially since these are rare and extreme cases.

Collusion is difficult to prove, and in most cases, almost impossible to even detect, unless, as in this case, it's so blatant. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out though. I'd be very surprised if credits were not given to those in the league, in spite of the original decision. Maybe they already have, and at TSN's (Bernie's) request, kept from the public to avoid abuse of meaningless charges of collusion:

Dear SOM player,

While it's not TSN's policy to refund credits, it's obvious in the case of League XXXXX that the charge of collusion is well founded. At this time we see no other option other than to issue you a credit. We request that this credit remain private, as public knowledge of this decision would lead to numerous requests for credits on the suspicion of any collusion that most likely is unfounded. We appreciate your continued patronage of our products, and hope that our decision to issue you a credit is satisfactory. Thank you.

[gbrookes]

Your points are well made, Jerlins, and I won't argue on those points. It isn't easy at all.

At a minimum though, there should be a direct penalty (like immediate removal from the league) for abusive, vulgar or obscene emails. Emails like the one quoted above take all the good things out of the game.

Geoff

[bernieh]

Yup, something needs to be done. Stay tuned.

[chasenally]

This looks like it could be it for Batman and Robin :twisted: . Will the Riddler put an end to the Dynamic Duo :shock: ? Can they escape the grasp of the enigma and piece this puzzle together :? . Holy Milton and Bradley Batman :o ! Tune in tomorrow, same Bat channel, same Bat time!