I'd like to start another sealed bid auction league when this one is done. My preference would be another ATGV auction, or a 2009 cards auction. I would love to go with the same rule, except allow those who introduce a player to make a secret bid also, but if folks really don't want that we can keep things exactly as they are.
I am interested in another sealed bid auction league (please list the year you would prefer, add another year not yet mentioned, if you would prefer that.)
1. litangel ATG or 2009
2. gorshar ATG
3. ironwill1 ATG
4. miduar ATG
5. Palanion ATG
6. joekendall ATG
7. hackra ATG
8. Carr20 ATG
9. DOHowser ATG
10.
11.
12.
Another Summer League - chat thread
by DHowser » Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:22 pm
I'd like to start another sealed bid auction league when this one is done. My preference would be another ATGV auction, or a 2009 cards auction. I would love to go with the same rule, except allow those who introduce a player to make a secret bid also, but if folks really don't want that we can keep things exactly as they are.
I am interested in another sealed bid auction league (please list the year you would prefer, add another year not yet mentioned, if you would prefer that.)
1. litangel ATG or 2009
2. gorshar ATG
3. ironwill1 ATG
4. miduar ATG
5. Palanion ATG
6. joekendall ATG
7. hackra ATG
8. Carr20 ATG
9. DOHowser ATG
10. DHowser ATG or 1978
11.
12.
I am interested in another sealed bid auction league (please list the year you would prefer, add another year not yet mentioned, if you would prefer that.)
1. litangel ATG or 2009
2. gorshar ATG
3. ironwill1 ATG
4. miduar ATG
5. Palanion ATG
6. joekendall ATG
7. hackra ATG
8. Carr20 ATG
9. DOHowser ATG
10. DHowser ATG or 1978
11.
12.
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by JOSEPHKENDALL » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:38 pm
I would say we also need to determine divisions before the draft. It could help in our strategy with our division mates.
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by gorshar » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:26 pm
[quote:1e8d745a81]I would say we also need to determine divisions before the draft. It could help in our strategy with our division mates.[/quote:1e8d745a81]
I was thinking the same thing. I also considered that maybe we choose and announce are ballparks in the beginning as well.
[quote:1e8d745a81]DHowser ATG or 1978[/quote:1e8d745a81]
1978???
I was thinking the same thing. I also considered that maybe we choose and announce are ballparks in the beginning as well.
[quote:1e8d745a81]DHowser ATG or 1978[/quote:1e8d745a81]
1978???
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by kimkrichbaum2 » Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:43 am
Well it is obvious that we are doing another ATG league. It seems there is some disagreement on details. Maybe some need voted on.
I basically think the sealed system works quite well. The one imperfection that bothers me the most, is that it is very disadvantageous to bring up a player that you want for bids, because your opening public bid gives something else for folks to take shots at. At the beginning of the draft I think this is an inconvenience that makes the draft less elegant, at the end of the draft it affects what happens in some very unpleasant ways.
It seems that others are not bothered by this, in which case I will let it go.
The two ways I have thought of fixing this would be by allowing the opening bidder to make a second bid, immediately after posting someone, with the player following them on our sign up chart, that way only one person would know their bid, rather than all 11, making it more useful to being up players we actually want.
Th other way would be, once one owner is full, any time someone is put up for bid, the bids are sent to that owner rather than the owner who proposed someone. This would allow the proposing owner to make a secret bid that on one sees.
Both of these solutions would assume if some one is not bid on by anyone, the proposing owner gets them for minimum. There may be an even more elegant solution, if you can think of it, I'd love to hear it.
If anyone else wants to this changed, let us know, otherwise, I will let this issue go.
These are the rules from last time:
League: ATG5, DH, adv, unique ballparks.
No transactions (no cuts, trades, etc) with TWO exceptions:
1. you may swap cards for a specific player, but only in the following manner - you cut the player with no new pickup, then you sign the player's new card.
2. a 3-round midseason draft to fill rosters
Bidding follows the usual $80/$200 convention. You have $80 mill to bid with and the total value of your roster is not to exceed $200 mill in Strat/SOM dollars. Bidding works like this:
A player is nominated (how so is explained further down this post) with a minimum bid posted to this board. The minimum bid must be at least $500K or 10% of the player's highest Strat value, whichever is greatest. The remaining 11 managers will PM a higher bid or a pass to the owner.
Bids are made in increments of $10K (not $100K as in other auctions). Example, Ruth is nominated at 11.5 million. You can bid 12.5, 12.55, but not 12.555. After all eleven owners have sent their bids (or 24 hours elapses) the nominating owner will post all the bids and announce the winner.
The winner then makes the next nomination.
If all eleven owners pass, then the owner who made the nomination keeps the player at the amount offered. So don't nominate anyone you aren't willing to have on your team! Hitters are followed by hitters, pitchers are followed by pitchers.
If you place an invalid bid (e.g., more than you can afford), the bid is ignored and the nominating owner who received your bid is not obligated to tell you your bid is no good, but it's always nice to do so, anyway.
We start with the top three priced hitters (Ruth, Gibson, Mantle) and top two priced pitchers (Maddux, Alexander).
If there is a tie, this is announced, and the tied owners have 24 hours to make a new bid. They must bid, and their minimum bids must be the $$ at which they tied. Again a winner is declared, or there is another tie, and owners rebid. If they remain tied after a second rebid, then the player is given to the owner who made the earliest bid at the previous tie (the one before this tie) at the price of the last tie.
There will be a ballpark draft at the end of the auction with the draft order being the lowest-valued roster picking first.
Also, there will be a 3-round draft (worst-to-first, recordwise) the week of games 85-105 using the remainder of our cap money and the FA.
I basically think the sealed system works quite well. The one imperfection that bothers me the most, is that it is very disadvantageous to bring up a player that you want for bids, because your opening public bid gives something else for folks to take shots at. At the beginning of the draft I think this is an inconvenience that makes the draft less elegant, at the end of the draft it affects what happens in some very unpleasant ways.
It seems that others are not bothered by this, in which case I will let it go.
The two ways I have thought of fixing this would be by allowing the opening bidder to make a second bid, immediately after posting someone, with the player following them on our sign up chart, that way only one person would know their bid, rather than all 11, making it more useful to being up players we actually want.
Th other way would be, once one owner is full, any time someone is put up for bid, the bids are sent to that owner rather than the owner who proposed someone. This would allow the proposing owner to make a secret bid that on one sees.
Both of these solutions would assume if some one is not bid on by anyone, the proposing owner gets them for minimum. There may be an even more elegant solution, if you can think of it, I'd love to hear it.
If anyone else wants to this changed, let us know, otherwise, I will let this issue go.
These are the rules from last time:
League: ATG5, DH, adv, unique ballparks.
No transactions (no cuts, trades, etc) with TWO exceptions:
1. you may swap cards for a specific player, but only in the following manner - you cut the player with no new pickup, then you sign the player's new card.
2. a 3-round midseason draft to fill rosters
Bidding follows the usual $80/$200 convention. You have $80 mill to bid with and the total value of your roster is not to exceed $200 mill in Strat/SOM dollars. Bidding works like this:
A player is nominated (how so is explained further down this post) with a minimum bid posted to this board. The minimum bid must be at least $500K or 10% of the player's highest Strat value, whichever is greatest. The remaining 11 managers will PM a higher bid or a pass to the owner.
Bids are made in increments of $10K (not $100K as in other auctions). Example, Ruth is nominated at 11.5 million. You can bid 12.5, 12.55, but not 12.555. After all eleven owners have sent their bids (or 24 hours elapses) the nominating owner will post all the bids and announce the winner.
The winner then makes the next nomination.
If all eleven owners pass, then the owner who made the nomination keeps the player at the amount offered. So don't nominate anyone you aren't willing to have on your team! Hitters are followed by hitters, pitchers are followed by pitchers.
If you place an invalid bid (e.g., more than you can afford), the bid is ignored and the nominating owner who received your bid is not obligated to tell you your bid is no good, but it's always nice to do so, anyway.
We start with the top three priced hitters (Ruth, Gibson, Mantle) and top two priced pitchers (Maddux, Alexander).
If there is a tie, this is announced, and the tied owners have 24 hours to make a new bid. They must bid, and their minimum bids must be the $$ at which they tied. Again a winner is declared, or there is another tie, and owners rebid. If they remain tied after a second rebid, then the player is given to the owner who made the earliest bid at the previous tie (the one before this tie) at the price of the last tie.
There will be a ballpark draft at the end of the auction with the draft order being the lowest-valued roster picking first.
Also, there will be a 3-round draft (worst-to-first, recordwise) the week of games 85-105 using the remainder of our cap money and the FA.
Last edited by kimkrichbaum2 on Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by kimkrichbaum2 » Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:51 am
These are the issues that some one suggested changing the rules, do we want to vote on these:
1. Do want to find a way for the proposing owner to make a private, or semi private bid?
2. Do we want to pick division before the draft?
3. Do we want to pick ballparks before the draft?
4. Do we want to let owners choose who they propose for the first 5 guys, rather than choosing the 5 most expensive?
5. Do we want to allow people to change their bids at any time during the 24 hour period, only for a limited time (I would suggest one hour), or not at all?
6. (I will also add) do we want to keep our 3 player supplemental pick mid-year or not have it?
Someone also mentioned ties, it was not a strong statement, so I have not added that to the list, although if someone else feels strongly I will add it to the list.
1. Do want to find a way for the proposing owner to make a private, or semi private bid?
2. Do we want to pick division before the draft?
3. Do we want to pick ballparks before the draft?
4. Do we want to let owners choose who they propose for the first 5 guys, rather than choosing the 5 most expensive?
5. Do we want to allow people to change their bids at any time during the 24 hour period, only for a limited time (I would suggest one hour), or not at all?
6. (I will also add) do we want to keep our 3 player supplemental pick mid-year or not have it?
Someone also mentioned ties, it was not a strong statement, so I have not added that to the list, although if someone else feels strongly I will add it to the list.
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by kimkrichbaum2 » Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:54 am
Here are my votes, I do not feel strongly at all, except for #1 and #3(I like the current reverse order on stadium choice)
1. Do want to find a way for the proposing owner to make a private, or semi private bid?
2. Do we want to pick divisions before the draft?
3. Do we want to pick ballparks before the draft?
4. Do we want to let owners choose who they propose for the first 5 guys, rather than choosing the 5 most expensive?
5. Do we want to allow people to change their bids at any time during the 24 hour period, only for a limited time (I would suggest one hour), or not at all?
6. (I will also add) do we want to keep our 3 player supplemental pick mid-year or not have it?
litangel
#1 - yes, #2 - no, #3 - no, #4 yes, #5 - 1 hour #6 - no
1. Do want to find a way for the proposing owner to make a private, or semi private bid?
2. Do we want to pick divisions before the draft?
3. Do we want to pick ballparks before the draft?
4. Do we want to let owners choose who they propose for the first 5 guys, rather than choosing the 5 most expensive?
5. Do we want to allow people to change their bids at any time during the 24 hour period, only for a limited time (I would suggest one hour), or not at all?
6. (I will also add) do we want to keep our 3 player supplemental pick mid-year or not have it?
litangel
#1 - yes, #2 - no, #3 - no, #4 yes, #5 - 1 hour #6 - no
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by hackra » Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:10 am
[quote:dec3a00e8f="litangel"]Here are my votes, I do not feel strongly at all, except for #1 and #3(I like the current reverse order on stadium choice)
1. Do want to find a way for the proposing owner to make a private, or semi private bid?
2. Do we want to pick divisions before the draft?
3. Do we want to pick ballparks before the draft?
4. Do we want to let owners choose who they propose for the first 5 guys, rather than choosing the 5 most expensive?
5. Do we want to allow people to change their bids at any time during the 24 hour period, only for a limited time (I would suggest one hour), or not at all?
6. (I will also add) do we want to keep our 3 player supplemental pick mid-year or not have it?
litangel
#1 - yes, #2 - no, #3 - no, #4 yes, #5 - 1 hour #6 - no[/quote:dec3a00e8f]
For what it's worth, I can think of a way to get the proposing owner a private bid or rebid, but it would be time consuming.
one way would be to find a league "president" who would take all bids but not participate in the bidding (this would be a 13th person).
Another way would be to do open bidding and rebidding...there are auctions like this I have seen, but I have yet to participate in one.
Another thought might be to only allow a proposing manager to pass (he can't win the player, and wouldn't propose someone he wanted to win), but if everybody passes, that player is disqualified for the rest of the auction and a new player must be proposed (maybe this time with an actual bid).
that in mind, here are my answers to the above -
#1 - (can I abstain?) don't feel strongly, but I worry that any solution that extends the actual time it takes to do the auction will cause us to lose managers interest. (I would be up for an open auction myself)
#2 - sure - why not
#3 - no (this is the only one I feel strongly about)
#4 - yes
#5 - why not (I am interested in how this will turn out)
1. Do want to find a way for the proposing owner to make a private, or semi private bid?
2. Do we want to pick divisions before the draft?
3. Do we want to pick ballparks before the draft?
4. Do we want to let owners choose who they propose for the first 5 guys, rather than choosing the 5 most expensive?
5. Do we want to allow people to change their bids at any time during the 24 hour period, only for a limited time (I would suggest one hour), or not at all?
6. (I will also add) do we want to keep our 3 player supplemental pick mid-year or not have it?
litangel
#1 - yes, #2 - no, #3 - no, #4 yes, #5 - 1 hour #6 - no[/quote:dec3a00e8f]
For what it's worth, I can think of a way to get the proposing owner a private bid or rebid, but it would be time consuming.
one way would be to find a league "president" who would take all bids but not participate in the bidding (this would be a 13th person).
Another way would be to do open bidding and rebidding...there are auctions like this I have seen, but I have yet to participate in one.
Another thought might be to only allow a proposing manager to pass (he can't win the player, and wouldn't propose someone he wanted to win), but if everybody passes, that player is disqualified for the rest of the auction and a new player must be proposed (maybe this time with an actual bid).
that in mind, here are my answers to the above -
#1 - (can I abstain?) don't feel strongly, but I worry that any solution that extends the actual time it takes to do the auction will cause us to lose managers interest. (I would be up for an open auction myself)
#2 - sure - why not
#3 - no (this is the only one I feel strongly about)
#4 - yes
#5 - why not (I am interested in how this will turn out)
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by gorshar » Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:03 am
[quote:b812b14cff] The one imperfection that bothers me the most, is that it is very disadvantageous to bring up a player that you want for bids, because your opening public bid gives something else for folks to take shots at.[/quote:b812b14cff]
Correct. Which is why, at least in the beginning of the auction, you don't nominate players you want. And if it's anybody over $8 mill, somebody will eventually nominate that player anyway, so you'll get your chance. Every hitter over $8 mill except Zack Wheat found a home and most of the $7 mill players, and some of them were late draft giveaways. I don't see an issue with being able to obtain any player you want.
[quote:b812b14cff]At the beginning of the draft I think this is an inconvenience that makes the draft less elegant,[/quote:b812b14cff]
How so? What's wrong with the anticipation of waiting for *that* player to appear on the block? I kinda like that.
[quote:b812b14cff]at the end of the draft it affects what happens in some very unpleasant ways. [/quote:b812b14cff] But that's part of the strategy - managing your money.
[quote:b812b14cff]...allowing the opening bidder to make a second bid, immediately after posting someone, with the player following them on our sign up chart, that way only one person would know their bid, rather than all 11, making it more useful to being up players we actually want. [/quote:b812b14cff]
But this gives an unfair advantage to the person who receives the bid. I see problems with this. The only way this works is there has to be someone who agrees not to bid on a player. So for every player auctioned we have to find someone who agrees not to bid and can accept the bid from the nominating owner. This could be time consuming. Meanwhile everybody else has to delay sending their bids.
[quote:b812b14cff]once one owner is full, any time someone is put up for bid, the bids are sent to that owner rather than the owner who proposed someone. This would allow the proposing owner to make a secret bid that on one sees. [/quote:b812b14cff] This works, except that by the time someone is full, were down mostly to scrub players anyway.
[quote:b812b14cff]If anyone else wants to this changed, let us know, otherwise, I will let this issue go. [/quote:b812b14cff] Probably for the best. Can you honestly say you lost a player because of the present system? Remember, if you really want Ralph Kiner or Rogers Hornsby - don't nominate them!!!! You know eventually somebody else will! We've completed two ATG5 sealed auctions and the only marquee player that has ever sat on the block until the end of the auction was this one with Drysdale. And that I bid out $4.20 to get him was really a matter of good strategy and money management on my part. Or so I'd like to think. :o
[quote:b812b14cff]one way would be to find a league "president" who would take all bids but not participate in the bidding (this would be a 13th person). [/quote:b812b14cff] I think that's asking too much of someone. Let's face it, it takes a lot of energy and attention to follow an auction when you're in it, now imagine trying to follow an auction through 300 players when you're not in it.
[quote:b812b14cff]Another way would be to do open bidding and rebidding...there are auctions like this I have seen, but I have yet to participate in one. [/quote:b812b14cff] This type of auction has been done several times. It takes about six months and gets *really* tedious at the end.
[quote:b812b14cff]Another thought might be to only allow a proposing manager to pass (he can't win the player, and wouldn't propose someone he wanted to win), but if everybody passes, that player is disqualified for the rest of the auction and a new player must be proposed (maybe this time with an actual bid). [/quote:b812b14cff] My only comment is that this will extend the length of the auction, particularly at the end as people are trying to fill out their rosters with $6 and $7 mil pitchers nobody really wants. The present system of requiring an opening bid prevents garbage nominations.
My answers:
1. No.
2. No preference either way.
3. No preference either way.
4. Yes. But we have to decide who gets the first five nominations.
5. Yes, but see below.
6. Yes.
Bid changing: - I have no problem with this, but there should not be a time limit. Let's say I've nominated Nap Lajoie. I receive all bids within four hours. Am I supposed to wait an hour before posting just in case the final bidder wants to change? No. I think it is better that anybody can change a bid at anytime up until the announcement of the winner. I think in most cases people will change their bids within minutes of sending them anyway. And if I happen to be the final bidder and the winner is posted two minutes after I submitted my bid and I wanted to change my bid? Well, too bad for me...
Correct. Which is why, at least in the beginning of the auction, you don't nominate players you want. And if it's anybody over $8 mill, somebody will eventually nominate that player anyway, so you'll get your chance. Every hitter over $8 mill except Zack Wheat found a home and most of the $7 mill players, and some of them were late draft giveaways. I don't see an issue with being able to obtain any player you want.
[quote:b812b14cff]At the beginning of the draft I think this is an inconvenience that makes the draft less elegant,[/quote:b812b14cff]
How so? What's wrong with the anticipation of waiting for *that* player to appear on the block? I kinda like that.
[quote:b812b14cff]at the end of the draft it affects what happens in some very unpleasant ways. [/quote:b812b14cff] But that's part of the strategy - managing your money.
[quote:b812b14cff]...allowing the opening bidder to make a second bid, immediately after posting someone, with the player following them on our sign up chart, that way only one person would know their bid, rather than all 11, making it more useful to being up players we actually want. [/quote:b812b14cff]
But this gives an unfair advantage to the person who receives the bid. I see problems with this. The only way this works is there has to be someone who agrees not to bid on a player. So for every player auctioned we have to find someone who agrees not to bid and can accept the bid from the nominating owner. This could be time consuming. Meanwhile everybody else has to delay sending their bids.
[quote:b812b14cff]once one owner is full, any time someone is put up for bid, the bids are sent to that owner rather than the owner who proposed someone. This would allow the proposing owner to make a secret bid that on one sees. [/quote:b812b14cff] This works, except that by the time someone is full, were down mostly to scrub players anyway.
[quote:b812b14cff]If anyone else wants to this changed, let us know, otherwise, I will let this issue go. [/quote:b812b14cff] Probably for the best. Can you honestly say you lost a player because of the present system? Remember, if you really want Ralph Kiner or Rogers Hornsby - don't nominate them!!!! You know eventually somebody else will! We've completed two ATG5 sealed auctions and the only marquee player that has ever sat on the block until the end of the auction was this one with Drysdale. And that I bid out $4.20 to get him was really a matter of good strategy and money management on my part. Or so I'd like to think. :o
[quote:b812b14cff]one way would be to find a league "president" who would take all bids but not participate in the bidding (this would be a 13th person). [/quote:b812b14cff] I think that's asking too much of someone. Let's face it, it takes a lot of energy and attention to follow an auction when you're in it, now imagine trying to follow an auction through 300 players when you're not in it.
[quote:b812b14cff]Another way would be to do open bidding and rebidding...there are auctions like this I have seen, but I have yet to participate in one. [/quote:b812b14cff] This type of auction has been done several times. It takes about six months and gets *really* tedious at the end.
[quote:b812b14cff]Another thought might be to only allow a proposing manager to pass (he can't win the player, and wouldn't propose someone he wanted to win), but if everybody passes, that player is disqualified for the rest of the auction and a new player must be proposed (maybe this time with an actual bid). [/quote:b812b14cff] My only comment is that this will extend the length of the auction, particularly at the end as people are trying to fill out their rosters with $6 and $7 mil pitchers nobody really wants. The present system of requiring an opening bid prevents garbage nominations.
My answers:
1. No.
2. No preference either way.
3. No preference either way.
4. Yes. But we have to decide who gets the first five nominations.
5. Yes, but see below.
6. Yes.
Bid changing: - I have no problem with this, but there should not be a time limit. Let's say I've nominated Nap Lajoie. I receive all bids within four hours. Am I supposed to wait an hour before posting just in case the final bidder wants to change? No. I think it is better that anybody can change a bid at anytime up until the announcement of the winner. I think in most cases people will change their bids within minutes of sending them anyway. And if I happen to be the final bidder and the winner is posted two minutes after I submitted my bid and I wanted to change my bid? Well, too bad for me...
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by gorshar » Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:10 am
But what we really need is a program to run auctions. We could knock these out in a few weeks.
Adrian did contact me awhile ago asking for details of how we did auctions and what we needed but I guess maybe he found it too complicated???
Also Bernie has auction drafts somewhere down on his list of things to do...
Having participated (to my knowledge) in every auction done here (ATG4 x 2, ATG5 x 2, 2008, 1999, 1969 x 2) I think if there were a feature for it somewhere either with the real SOM drafts or with Diamond Dope there would be a lot of auctions played.
And it's the best draft of all because it's the only draft where every manager has a fair chance at every player.
Adrian did contact me awhile ago asking for details of how we did auctions and what we needed but I guess maybe he found it too complicated???
Also Bernie has auction drafts somewhere down on his list of things to do...
Having participated (to my knowledge) in every auction done here (ATG4 x 2, ATG5 x 2, 2008, 1999, 1969 x 2) I think if there were a feature for it somewhere either with the real SOM drafts or with Diamond Dope there would be a lot of auctions played.
And it's the best draft of all because it's the only draft where every manager has a fair chance at every player.
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