Out of Position Players

[RICHARDMILTER]

Marcus Wilby, why all the aggression? Because you were proved wrong???

Of course I can read, I am the one who pointed out the rule in the first place. Why does this have to be personal?

What is your problem, everyone is wrong sometimes.I admit it when I am wrong, why is it so hard for you to admit it?

And why all the personal attacks?

So long....

[RICHARDMILTER]

We could have ended this about 30 posts ago, if you had just read the rules......Thank you,... finally .....Over and out good luck to all!

[MARCPELLETIER]

You started the accusations and the finger-pointing by the way.

Yes, you are right that Tavarez should not be 5, in fact we have no proof that Tavarez is being given a "5". All clues point to the fact that, in TSN, when Tavarez does fill in and play lf, he is quite correctly NOT being penalized.

But no, you are wrong you say, and I quote completely, without editing:

[quote:160a52c7bb]You are wrong! Outfielders can switch positions. No other players can switch positions, but outfielders can, this is right in the official SOM rules. I know I am right I have done it hundreds of times. And playing RF and playing LF are no different than playing LF in two different stadiums. But you can not put someone at an infield position unless they are rated. I play hundreds of games on the CD-ROM a month, I know the rules!I know I am right, about this I do it ALL THE TIME! Call Strat-O-Matic. Believe me I know the rules! . [/quote:160a52c7bb]

You are wrong because the rules say explicitely, and I quote completely, without editing:


[quote:160a52c7bb]GETTING STARTED:
To play a position, a player must have that position shown on his card [/quote:160a52c7bb]

So outfielders are NOT allowed to switch positions. Players MUST have the precise position shown on the card.

However, when injuries happen, outfielder can fill exceptionnally, without being penalized. But filling in IS NOT switching positions, because ONLY when no one else can play lf that someone like Tavarez may fill in and NOT be penalized. I posted the whole paragraph 25 at the top of this page.

And this is exactly what happens in TSN.



Hence, voovits and coyote were right the whole way.

[RICHARDMILTER]

Why does the CD-ROM allow Taveras or any CF er to play in LF or RF unchanged(whether filing in for an injured player or not)?

Why do you continue to argue when the rules are right in front of you?

It says, "The exception is...". That means what it says, and says what it means.

Vootis, where do I claim to ,"Know it all..."?

And why the personal attacks?

Are you and Vootis the same person?

What is your beef with me?

[MARCPELLETIER]

[quote:31f9527d2e]Why does the CD-ROM allow Taveras or any CF er to play in LF or RF unchanged(whether filing in for an injured player or not)?
[/quote:31f9527d2e]

Good question. The CD-ROM does allow Taveras or any CF to play in LF at any occasion, but the STRAT rules state that you cannot.

Simply put, the CD-ROM does NOT follow the STRAT rules on this particular point. Perhaps to allow in-house rules to apply.

[RICHARDMILTER]

No it says, "The exception is....".

Besides why would a CF remain unchanged in the event of an injury, but not remain unchanged if there is no injury?

If the CD-ROM allows it, and it coincides with the rules, does that not make it a rule?

And what is the reason for the change when there is no injury,.......in your mind?


I think the lesson to Vootis and others is, cut your losses and just admit when you are wrong, I do it all the time. In fact I admitted I was wrong in many, many posts here in the past....

By the way, I WAS WRONG, Taveras is not a 1 or a 2, he is a 3. See that is not so hard.

And for more evidence of me admitting I am NOT a so called, "Know it all,...", see any number of my posts , there are 1700 of them. Or you could just look at the thread entitled, "What happened to Ben Zobrist", where I stated yesterday, I do not know this year's set as well as most...

It is no big deal to be wrong, but it is kind of bad when no one sticks up for you when you are right, or when people pile on for personal reasons, or attacks.

I usually end all my posts with good luck and I end all my seasons with a ,"Congratulations" to the champs. Why can't we be civil?

I have been a jerk in the past, and I am sorry. We are all wrong sometimes.

[MARCPELLETIER]

Nice post, rmilter. I apologize for having lost patience.

On the issue, I believe that "the exception" sentence refers to the preceding paragraph, which states that "the substitute at the unfamiliar position plays with the worst possible defensive ratings". Outfielders are exception to this worst-ratings rule, because for the most part, they keep the same rating.

But this exception does deny, at least under my interpretation, the overall context that a coach is not allowed to switch for a player playing a position NOT listed on the card except in the context of injuries, when there is no one else available in the team that can play this position.

[RICHARDMILTER]

Thank you and I am sorry for losing my patience too, I just wanted someone to see the rule book.

I think the fact that you are allowed to use CF ers in any outfield position says that at the very least the rule is open to interpretation.

I believe SOM, Hal Richman and Steve Barkan would not allow this on the CD-ROM if they did not mean it too be a rule. They know what they are doing. That being said, I can see your perspective.

I think in the end, the good people of Strat-O-Matic should probably have the final say...

To me, it just does not make sense to rate the player one way for an injury and one way when there is no injury. Does that make sense to you?

Why wouldn't a CF be able to play LF with the same or similar range???

The reason someone like Willie Taveras, Coco Crisp, or Grady Sizemore is not listed as a LF er or RF er is because they never appeared there for that season...however look at All-Star games over the years, CF ers play RF or LF and vice versa...

It is silly to assume a healthy Grady Sizemore would be a 5 in LF when there is no injury, and a 1 in LF when there is an injury...

Good luck to you in all your leagues, Mr. Marcus Wilby and everyone else... Maybe someday someone can ask Hal Richman what the exact ruling is. Take care.

[RICHARDMILTER]

There are several different types of Strato players. Those doing exact replays would not want a CF in LF. But those doing draft leagues might not mind....... That could be the reason for the discrepancy.

[voovits]

rmilter, you never claimed to be a know it all, I was just exaggerating.

I would like to apologize if I offended anyone, especially rmilter. I was not meaning to be offensive, just trying to have a debate on the issue.

We both have our own opinions on the matter, and for the record, I do not think outfielders playing out of position in the online game are automatically given a 5 in other outfield positions. I think that would be dumb of TSN to incorporate that if it were the case.

The rules may say one thing, but the CDROM game pretty much gives you freedom to do what you want.
Want to start Grady Sizemore in LF? no Problem.
Want to start Carlos Beltran at SS? No Problem.
Want to have Brian McCann pitch? No Problem.
Want to have Roy Halladay play 3B? No Problem.

You get the point. If you were playing C&D with a total stranger, he'd probably take issue with some or all of those moves because they'd technically be against the rules.

I think it's best to just let it be and agree that we have different opinions on the matter. I wish you well in your strat endeavors.