1969 single team theme league - drafting

[Rjnewman]

Given the untested format I think we should start over. However I will defer to group. Mccovey and almost 4 million for Popovich and Jones is wrong even if you dont understand that Popovich caliber players will be available between message board draft and start of league. Unser would never start in 100 mill league. Carty could be an atttempt to save cash in message board part of draft.Plus that is not an imbalanced trade.

[Rjnewman]

Just trying to be fair.

[franky35]

still collecting comments.

I disagree that Popovich-caliber players will be available after the message board draft. In particular, there won't be 2nd baseman as good as Popovich. 7 teams have starting 2nd basemen: Green (Oak), McAuliffe (Det), Andrews (Bos), D Johnson (Balt), Carew (Minn), Javier (StL), and Popovich (Cubs). That leaves 5 teams needing 2nd base, but only 4 decent available 2nd basemen: Morgan, Millan, Clarke, Hunt (and Hunt has injury issues). Who is going to be left after the message board draft to play 2nd?

IMO, there won't be good players available after the draft. Of the top 50 most expensive hitters (down to Ron Hunt), only 16 are available to be drafted. I guess it depends on what is meant by "good."

[franky35]

I've thought about these comments and have come to a preliminary ruling. This ruling is subject to change if a better option is suggested.

Trading was part of the original rules. If owners want to eliminate draft phase trading - then speak up now, and I would especially weigh pwootten's opinion. If the rules are changed to prohibit trading during the draft, then a grace period will be provided to let owners switch franchises.

Assuming draft-phase trading continues to be allowed, then here is my preliminary ruling:

The Epstein-Yaz trade goes through. The Unser trade is revoked. The McCovey-Popovich trade is revoked only if (1) a better offer is made, or (2) pwootten wants to revoke it. The draft restarts from the beginning.

Any future trades are subject to commissioner review based on my experience as what is generally thought to be a fair trade.

[franky35]

San Diego has got few choices. They either need to trade McCovey, trade Nate Colbert, or cut Nate Colbert. Cutting Colbert is a waste. Probably no one wants to trade for Colbert. So, it looks to me that trading McCovey is the best option. What are your thoughts?

[LMBombers]

I think all these ridiculing statements about other owners in this league is crazy and is going to kill this league. Having to get approval from others when trying to manage your roster is demeaning and takes all the fun out of it. I was enjoying this league but now feel like I am in a police state. :evil:

No trades should be eliminated unless you believe that owner was not trading in good faith. The rules should not be changed since we have already started down this path. What if an owner drafts a FA player that you don't think was his best choice or in a position he needed more? Is that pick going to be overturned as well? Maybe there are some owners that we need to complete their rosters for them and then just give them their teams? :roll: I'm sure those owners will feel that is a bunch of fun.

I was about to sign up for the identical 1986 league today but now I'm not sure if the rules are going to changed after it begins.

[Risden]

I will go with whatever the majority of the league wants; not that big of a deal to me. It's a game played for fun. The winners get...nothing. Except a free credit. Whoop-dee-do.

I traded away Epstein because I value defense more than most owners and having Frank Howard in the outfield was something that I wanted to avoid. Since I am very adverse to injury-prone players, I traded for Yaz and got a solid starter (Culp). Getting Culp and Yaz for Epstein is OK for me. If we had a DH league, I would not have made that trade. If the league wants that trade turned over, let me know. If it is voided, then ALL trades should be voided.

Franky is right about the waivers. There won't be much of anything left after the free agent draft. It is a $100M league with a rather limited (1969) player pool.

I happen to use Del Unser alot. He doesn't suck and, in fact, he is BETTER than Paul Pop-up-vich. If the Unser trade is voided AND the McCovey trade stands :shock: , I will respectfully withdraw from this league. The Padres lost a helluva lot more in the McCovey deal than they did in the Unser deal.

[pkwmati]

[quote:7e9ce2a84b="franky35"]Let me raise another point - Carty #6 overall - with no DH? Should we allow that?[/quote:7e9ce2a84b]

What the hell????

Why wouldn't you allow that? Carty is the #11 OPS in the set and the only one higher available at #6 is Staub, who can only play RF and I already have Aaron. Carty is top 15 in both OBP and Slugging and top 5 in BA. Sure his defense sucks, but I think I can survive with that 4(+2) in LF depending on who I can field elsewhere. Still a long way to go for me in this draft ($40M+)

If you look through the thread I put in a link where I had a 90 win team that went to the finals with Carty AND Frank Howard playing the corner OF positions.

[Rjnewman]

The Mccovey deal part that is the worst is the fact that Pwooten lost a ton of money AND Mccovey. I suggest he may not have even been aware it would cost him 13+million in cap until after trade completed. I was not sure myself. Dont forget that many players will be cut and put in pool before league starts. Colbert cut for Mccovey would be an example. Unser would have been cut for Bonds or Wynn. That would allow Bob to buy a better relief pitcher for example. I agree it is just a game. However a great game that needs policing for fairness when we tweak the format. You guys have won tons of times and are amongst the best in the game. You dont need any extra help. You guys should be helping guys unfamiliar with format or set. Franky volunteered as commisioner to take astrodome in last league as commisioner to keep things as fair as possible, and still won his division going away. I thoroughly enjoy these leagues and relish the challenge of playing with you guys. I believe you guys know the trades are damaging to Pwooten and therefore rest of us. You want to beat us on an even playing field. That is the challenge. Otherwise you would go play in the basic game and beat less competent players. I appreciate your work to put these leagues together. Do any of you believe my comments are really out of line? I apologize to Unser and Popovich (if they are still alive). Hopefully I am helping Pwooten.

[ggrover15]

Here is what I think.... Just my thoughts.
Paul gets the cap back for Mccovey and Frank takes the cap hit. Makes the deal ok in my mind. If I were Paul I would be doing the same thing. Trying to get everyones cap room taken up quickly so I can get as many of the 4 -5 mill dollar guys before anyone else can make moves after waivers. The Padres are not going to win if they take 4 superstars now. They are going to have to try and win with a ton of 4 - 5 million dollar guys. I think all trades that include a drafted player that players cap moves also.
The unser trade- I like Unser I think the deal would have been better if he would of got risden second round pick not his third but still not all that bad to over turn depending on who he gets with that 3rd round pick. My guess a pretty good player.
Yaz culp deal. I thought that one was fine only because he has Howard he can move to firstbase and gets a 1 in OF.

Last Carty pick. He can and should take any player he wants no matter what. It is his pick and Carty is a great Value.

I really think the biggest issue is that Paul got stuck taking the cap room on McCovey and Frank did not. I would think Frank would still do the deal if he lost the cap room for McCovey if not he should be able to void the deal.

Just my 2 Cents....