An update

[nevdully's]

Several points. First I don't think the price of a 5 pack is too expensive, or needs to be lowered. However [b:258f8a6d10]not running a sale a couple of times a year, especially given this economy, to give your loyal customers a "thank you" is just bad for business. [/b:258f8a6d10]

Marketing for new customers is of course a positive step in the right direction. However relying on some big boon of new business from these customers which some has said might allow TSN to offer future discounts etc. is pie in the sky at best. Consider the only few possibilities that might be here. A.) Strat biz is booming the last couple of years (highly unlikely) so why offer a discount. B.) They've taken a hit and are working on less margin than ever (very possible) so how long and how many new customers will it take for STRAT to be swimming in the black to even consider giving vets a price break. C.) It's as bad for them as it is for many of us (possible)...Then it stands to reason they'd need to keep whatever this new infusion brings just to stop the bleeding.

[b:258f8a6d10]The real and fastest money to be made already exists here, in both game ideas and current customers.[/b:258f8a6d10]

But STRAT is very neglected, contrary to what some may claim.

Consider just these few things....the Good People Tourney...It was pretty popular from what I could tell and good for business (correct me if I'm wrong) Bobby left. End of Tourney. Why? Was[b:258f8a6d10] Any [/b:258f8a6d10] effort put in to try and keep it going? Not from us, but from management. Look how popular and longstanding the Barnstormers tour has been. Sure Bobby (a customer) is no longer here to give his time and generous donation but couldn't someone from TSN pick up in his place...Couldn't someone [b:258f8a6d10]offer incentives to one or two customers to run this event[/b:258f8a6d10] like Moose runs his Barnstormers tour? Of course no one here is suggesting the sizable donation Bobby so willingly gave, but still prizes could be awarded and major mention given on both the game and board sites...Remember many here are here because they like to compete...Many are here to be a part of a bigger picture and community with more structure than just random leagues...Perhaps like the Good People Tourney, an idea sparked by one of our members for one of our members ( It's a shame so many here don't know the origin of it) that [b:258f8a6d10]with a little thought[/b:258f8a6d10] perhaps other worthwhile tournaments can be created...But sadly my guess is it's not even a thought in management's mind...good idea(s) dieing on the vine.


24 team leagues...We asked for a l-o-n-g time....And we got it....and we don't support it, and (imo) for good reason...The playoff format. Not necessarily the credit system, but the playoff format...But regardless of whether things could be improved or not is, at this point, irrelevant...Because it's put on there...and nothing!....No follow up...no dialogue by management of why something many of us wanted is not being utilized...nothing...How is there not either awareness or care or both by management to even ask a damn question....just another potentially good idea left to die on the vine.

The Frenzy!

What?

The Frenzy!

What the heck is the Frenzy?

You don't know?

No. I'm curious but I don't see much info on it or see that much talk or participation in it on the boards.

Well Son it used to be so very popular, and exciting, but it's sorta gone the way of the dinosaur now. See when they were switching over to a waiver system, which later became a weighted waiver system management was going to eliminate the Frenzy (the origin of the Frenzy, the name even coined by a customer and it's beginnings is another cool history lesson, but for another time). We asked to have it kept and management was good enough to let us keep it.... but apparently management didn't think it was important enough to actively promote. Damn shame really...If they knew their customer they'd realize that so many of the purchases are "spur of moment" and nothing matched the excitement of a "Frenzy at Midnight" boy just like a live draft we've got long time loyal customers that just can't resist these leagues..Again the question that begs to be asked (hello management) is why something many in the community had wanted, has less and less participation.....Unfortunately so many of the new, hell so many of the customers that have joined in the last [b:258f8a6d10]5 years[/b:258f8a6d10] don't know what they're missing...so these leagues aren't anything like what they could be....The Frenzy, another good idea that has all but died on the vine.

Live drafts at different caps. Frenzies promoted, and maybe at different times. A 24 team league with a new playoff format. [b:258f8a6d10]A sale once in awhile[/b:258f8a6d10]...so many other ideas to stimulate business through existing customers....We're here, we're ready.....We may say one thing but when there's something new, cards, ideas, tournaments, or even something as simple as 10 in a league ready to be filled, many can't resist making that purchase for the immediate gratification of opening a new team. (btw leagues being drafted 10 minutes after filling is Awesome!) Give us a reason to play. A Yogi~ism...The faster leagues fill, the faster leagues will fill... Let your actions show TSN cares...or soon the whole site might be dead on the vine.

[Valen]

[quote:81a6041b58]Frenzies promoted, and maybe at different times.[/quote:81a6041b58]
I remember the frenzies. I much prefer waivers. But unlike then I have a 12 meg connection now. I would play some frenzies if they happened earlier. Kick them off at say 7 pm CST and I would participate in some occasionally. Now I would be doing that instead of waivers so no new revenue from me. But to the extent my participate gets a league close to filling someone like Nev may spend extra money to jump in and get it going.

I have argued that sales may not increase revenue. For example when they ran the last sale I bought a ton of credits. Still playing off those. Not sure I am playing any more often than I would have anyway. So maybe could be argued they gained no additional revenue from me. Just got my money up front which I would have spent over the last year+. But an occasional sale if limited to one 5-pack would show some of the appreciation Nev is looking for. And it would all a few to play who have really limited budgets who currently are very sporadic. And in theory the infrastructure/coding is in place to do just that. Once or twice a year (say Fathers Day and Christmas?) might go a long way.

Points made about Barnstormers and other tourneys is well made. I do believe these result in sales that otherwise do not happen. So the ball was dropped on that one. TSN gets an error on that.

[nevdully's]

[quote:e6e95c4290] Now I would be doing that instead of waivers so no new revenue from me. But to the extent my participate gets a league close to filling someone like Nev may spend extra money to jump in and get it going. [/quote:e6e95c4290]

Exactly.


It's very unlikely that as loved as the Frenzy was by many (not all but quite a few) it wouldn't also be loved by a good pct of the people that haven't experienced it yet.

Which means...

The more and faster Frenzy leagues fill, the more and faster Frenzy leagues will fill.

Certainly the momentum of this will happen much quicker than the new customers (great and some of them will love the Frenzy too) bringing in goodies from TSN management.

[nevdully's]

Probably the most exciting time here was the "Mother of All Frenzies"

A draft list of only unusable scrubs were give to each of the 12 managers. The rule simply stated none of these players were allowed to be on your roster past draft night. Which of course meant every one of them had to be Frenzied out ....Your entire roster, everyone's entire roster was Frenzied for, and it was a Blast!

[modmark46]

My favorite, the Frenzy Leagues. The thrill of the Frenzies, back in the day, brings back fond memories. In the days of ATG 1, perhaps 2, Frenzies ruled. The smaller player pool made nabbing W. Mays or R. Yount a real coup. Frenzies have faded away because we got what we asked for; more players. I loved those Mother of All Frenzy leagues also, Michael. For those that think midnight is too late for a frenzy, way back when, the drafts went off [i:c7ff710d69]around[/i:c7ff710d69] 4am EST! Meaning anywhere from 4am to 4:45am, or so. I remember joining a frenzy league on a Fri/Sat night, getting the coffee going, the movies ready, and staying up all night, waiting with anticipation for when the frenzy would finally occur. And I got to know several people here on line, just by all of us chatting back and forth as we kept each other awake in to the wee hours of the morning. Good times. I think the changes that have been incorporated over the years have been awesome. But the demise of the frenzy, and the thrill it brought, has been the price we have payed for those changes.

[bontomn]

Nev's thoughts about TSN trying to restart Bobby's Good People Tournament is worth following up on. For anyone wondering about the origin of the tournament and its founder should check out the Good People Message Board. It was a marvelous event, attracting well over 100 good managers each year, and in the process raising money to fund research to prevent cancer in children. Bobby was not only generous in his donations but overly generous perhaps in setting it up.

I suspect that if TSN would offer to continue the extra credits for winners of each Good People league, several of us (myself included) would volunteer our time to help organize and promote it.

And it wouldn't have to be sold at a discount!

[Valen]

[quote:5b73985191]The smaller player pool made nabbing W. Mays or R. Yount a real coup.[/quote:5b73985191]
My strongest memory was the team where I got BOTH Mays and Yount during the frenzy. Could not believe it when draft processed and there they were at top of FA list. Very surprised I could click fast enough to get both.

[OakAth72]

[quote:35cf305c56="nevdully's"]Probably the most exciting time here was the "Mother of All Frenzies"

A draft list of only unusable scrubs were give to each of the 12 managers. The rule simply stated none of these players were allowed to be on your roster past draft night. Which of course meant every one of them had to be Frenzied out ....Your entire roster, everyone's entire roster was Frenzied for, and it was a Blast![/quote:35cf305c56]


I would love to try this......does anyone think we could get twelve willing managers?

[Salty]

Sounds like something Id try too.
Ill have to go over to Valen's house to use his 12 meg computer 8-)

[TRW]

A few comments:

1) TSN did not have a sale on credits for last XMAS. I would not expect them to have a sale on credits for any holidays in the near future.

2) Sales in general - I agree w/Valen. In the past when I did buy credits, it was mainly a boatload when they had a holiday sale. I probably bought 80% of my credits when they were on sale.

3) On wheter to lower prices or not-

You can argue all you want about wheter $25 or $100/5 pack is a fair price. And talk about it's entertainment value over the course of 8 weeks...And compare it to the cost of going to the movies...yada yada...

How about doing some analysis & going to the managers ratings page and seeing how many games were actually played in each version of SOM over the last few years.

Just eyeballing ATG6 it looks like the overall there are drastically fewer games being played. (once you look past the superowners and factor out all the WS and free playoff credits.)

4) Live Drafts - In valen's other thread he was talking about Live Drafts. Isn't it kind of pathetic that on average 1 Live Draft league a week fills? That means TSN can barely get 12 people to fill this league per week...The Live draft leagues should be a big selling point for SOM, IMO.

...if that doesn't say anything about the cost being too high, I don't know what does...