BP v.3

[nevdully's]

Righty/lefty set up roles.

Maybe even a 3rd righty/lefty specialist block.

More importantly a revisit to fatigue effects.

Here, and perhaps accurately according to written code,...Eck has this line...and somehow goes from F9 to F0 after a *single* by Jimmy Wynn...5 batters over 2 innings *important Eck is only an R1*....no runs..

Many layers to examine, (certainly not just this one example given here) and maybe after careful review the way it is now is best...but really it at least needs to be studied....By minimizing fatigue effects, even if it's just going back to how it was before (fatigue effects = singles) could go a long way towards lessening these 20+ run games that we see quite regularly....Yes I understand high caps and the stadium choices we make also contribute to these softball like scores...but participate in 80m and you'll still see plenty of this.

*** BOTTOM OF INNING 7 ***
0 A.Pujols 4-7 Strike Out b-0 F9
1 T.Williams 3-9 Walk b-1 F8
SUBSTITUTE P - [b:eaaf007707]Dennis Eckersley[/b:eaaf007707] (role: RH Specialist)
[b:eaaf007707]1 1 F.Thomas 6-10 Strike Out b-0 F9
2 1 H.Killebrew 4-4 Double (CF) 1-o b-2 F9[/b:eaaf007707]
*** TOP OF INNING 8 ***
0 M.Schmidt 2-8 Ground Out (2B) b-0 F9
1 W.Wells 4-3 Single (P) b-1 gb(P)x F8
SUBSTITUTE P - Wilcy Moore
1 1 R.Yount 1-11 Strike Out b-0 F9
2 1 A.Dawson 4-7 Walk 1-2 b-1 F9
2 12 J.Morgan 2-6 Ground Out (1B) b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 8 ***
SUBSTITUTE LF- Kiki Cuyler
[b:eaaf007707]0 J.Kent 4-4 Double (CF) b-2 F9[/b:eaaf007707]
SUBSTITUTE PR- Reggie Jackson
[b:eaaf007707]0 2 I.Rodriguez 3-7 Fly Out (CF) b-0 F9
1 2 J.Wynn 2-10 Single (LF) 2-3 b-1 bpSI 1-12 F0[/b:eaaf007707]
SUBSTITUTE P - Robb Nen (role: RH Specialist)


Anyone else interested in BPv.3?

[JOSEPHKENDALL]

Yes, I am interested in BP v3.

An important point though is who will study this to determine if it is OK now as is or needs to be changed. Bernie is so busy with other things that I can't see him having time to do it. Anyone else would need to have access to the code to really determine what is happening for sure. I doubt SOM will allow that.

[Salty]

Heck,

I want access to the code just to understand the difference between the original 'dice roll' game and how the computer interperts things...

[nevdully's]

Bernie runs test leagues and we read boxscores and report what looks good and not so good...he adjusts and we repeat.

[JOSEPHKENDALL]

[quote:ed4133b8a3="nevdully's"]Bernie runs test leagues and we read boxscores and report what looks good and not so good...he adjusts and we repeat.[/quote:ed4133b8a3]

How did you feel about BP v2 after testing it?

[Salty]

Also...and sorry to go on about this...
but being the suspicious type- and a suspect character myself, I like to see stuff, just because I 'suspect' things like the ballpark Triples and Doubles thing may still be on.

In reference to BP3- I personally would love it and Id like to add an option to IBB specific players within some parameter ie. close game+men on base or some such.
One may want to refer to this as the Bonds/Ruth option.

[nevdully's]

It was a big step in the right direction for specialists...A step forward in rp usage, but then a step back because of such negative fatigue results...And finally a lot of stuff that just couldn't be addressed because there was urgency to get it out and in play.

[The Rivs]

Those tests went on for awhile, and there were some pretty decent arguments at the beginning, and the end about what needed to be done, what could be done, and what the intent was. I think the main Managers involved all served well, and added a lot, no matter the length of their contributions, all were of a high quality. I think the improvements were vast and still are. I think the intent was to maximize manager control over the bullpen but we got a lot more through those changes, and the job was done, we did increase managerial control by a lot. I will additionally say, that I have been mostly able to get my bully to do basically what I direct them to do, and get the inning distributions I want to try. I just still can't get my guys to all play at once. The fatigue results, I think, need to be calibrated a bit, as I find them largely useless, and Hal seems to have better judgment due to the Bully control being increased. I typically find that my other bully controls rule out fatigue effects, so maybe it's just me. I want the fatigue factor to work more in line with, alongside of, the other factors, but currently, I only find it useful when I wanna burn a starter coz I drafted thin in the Pen. Salt- anything I could do to limit the amount of IBB's Hal let's my team issue, I'm in favor of.
I would like for the avoid LHB and RHB toggles turned on for SPs too. There is no way anyone but Bernie could ultimately work on it, but I know he knows I'd expect him to call the first five or so managers that contributed the most plus others to beta test it. I'm in favor of your suggestions Nev my Brutha, but I am pretty happy with the 2 each for specialists, a third would be nice. Righty Lefty set-up spot would be cool too, but I find, and I'm sure you'll find it not happening this way, it's one of the reasons I luv ya Bro, I find that Hal is making those calls when he looks to the set-up men, so I will typically slot a Bal R RP in the first set-up slot, and a Bal L RP in the second slot, usually Hal will use the appropriate one and, you get what you want there. That's visa versa for LH dominant park. Now, I will say that I know I suck at this game but my bullpens often are the difference makers on my winning teams. Bernie call me for the opening arguments! :wink: 8-)

[nevdully's]

RIVS! :mrgreen:

I know I'm gonna butcher my ideas but I'll try and write my concerns...


I think [b:b38600fb2c]quick hook[/b:b38600fb2c] needs to be in effect earlier (I think now it's the 6th inning) should be almost at any time and/or redefined...If your starter gives up 4 in the 1st and 2 more in the 2nd his fatigue or an aggressive bp setting *might get him out earlier* but it's not quick hook (it should be imo)...This leads to 6-0 after 3 and your sp still in the game....*However* in a well pitched 1-1 tie in the 6th your sp gives up a leadoff walk and gets pulled "quick hook"...Now the latter might be what we want in many instances but certainly not the former....Now I think most of us list a scrub rp as mop up, problem is in ATG where 10+ runs is a common occurrence do we really want the scrub brought in in the 3rd...Quick hook = not an option til the 6th (might be the 5th). Mop up= earlier but when leading or trailing by 7...[b:b38600fb2c]Too big of a gap.[/b:b38600fb2c]..[b:b38600fb2c]Something needs to be done sooner and before it's 8-0.[/b:b38600fb2c]

Closer by definition= # [b:b38600fb2c]Closer: Inning: 9+; Leading by 1-3 runs
[/b:b38600fb2c]...Should be changed especially here in ATG to 8th inning or with stud RPs from the past *as soon as it's a save situation* because just 1 inning closers wasn't Baseball for most of it's history. (I know we can get around this sometimes, but only sometimes..so why not write it this way....What's the point of having a stud R4 or R5 that you gotta finagle to get him in early..


Avoid should be applied to starters even if written differently (slightly) than rps...Avoid for sps should'nt even kick in until the 5th and then only *influence* this sliding scale HAL uses to pull a pitcher...Say your starter is avoid lefties...first and second and a righty up the chance HAL allows your starter to pitch is X...If its a lefty that's the deciding factor that HAL uses to pull your sp... maybe better labeled *Avoid when in trouble*

Gotta disagree on the righty lefty setup...Almost always HAL will go to the top guy listed unless there is an avoid situation...Hard to have Eck avoid the left just to get to Franco...

I know some of this might be too much new code or work (avoid for sps) but much of it is just tweaking this sliding scale or changing the inning something gets looked at.


[b:b38600fb2c]A little important[/b:b38600fb2c]....If we could get to some new category in between quick hook and mop up before the game gets out of hand....

[b:b38600fb2c]Important[/b:b38600fb2c]...righty lefty set up (someone mentioned it's like this in the cd-rom game)

[b:b38600fb2c]Very Important[/b:b38600fb2c]...If we could get to our closers earlier, with certainty, assuming they are rested.

[b:b38600fb2c]Very very important[/b:b38600fb2c]...Lessen the severe effects of fatigue...

[Palanion]

Yeah, that bullpen project was a long, but fruitful venture "behind the curtain" so to speak. I think the group of us that were involved saw at least a dozen versions of bpv2 over nine months.
I thought bpv2 was a VAST improvement over what was originally provided. Now that I play the CD-Rom game more than I play here, I have an even better understanding of the game in terms of computer settings.
The CD-Rom has Super HAL pitching settings that I still don't understand, and i've had the game for 15 months (with some intensive play). But in the general sense, I now know why some settings are included here (IBB less, avoid in blowouts), and am amazed by some of the things we ARE given that the CD-Rom does not (the actual F-rating as a setting AND in the box score).
I am sure that a bpv3 would be an improvement on the one we have now, particuarly with lefty setup and righty setup (in the CD-Rom) and improved pitcher selection (if he's not listed on the left, then he's available when no specified role is needed).

Bill