Changing the Autodraft

[Valen]

[quote:4439c1af46]and I'd be happy to review and comment on it, and hopefully implement the best solutions. [/quote:4439c1af46]

Something I would like to hear from Bernie is comments on the various options presented regarding how difficult it would be for him to implement. I would also be curious to know Bernie's thinking on whether a change would have to be a change for all leagues or if he would lean toward an optional new autodraft making it selectable at league creation similar to the way waivers/frenzy is now optional.

[216 Stitches]

[quote:c228945b57="El-Saltman"]I think that is an excellent point made about the List.

TBH- now that everyone has the list of where we drafted it makes it much more imperative that we get as many new players in as soon as possible, to shake up the now predetermined approximate placement of the current card set.

Therefore, Id put adding as many player cards as quickly as possible to be of much more value to me than fixing the auto-draft system, which I do think can be improved, but takes a big back seat to breathing more life into the Live and high cap drafts first and making it more interesting in the lower ones as well.[/quote:c228945b57]

I think I will respond to this email. You still have read Petrosian's comment to know what I am talking about, but there are some statements in the original (let me loosely paraphrase): I need
my experience benefits against newbies to maintain my .540
winning percentage which deserve a firm: no comment.

Agreement: the average draft lists provide some leveling of the player
field. And perhaps for the two posters, its "all they got"

Disagreement:
(1) its not that much if you just pay attention -- the TSN rating is not
that far off the lists, it has one major flaw for comparison sake (no
positional scarcity consideration) and several minor ones (no help on platoon combos). But the average draft list is not that far off the TSN
rating.
(2) their are several managers that are using strategies beyond what
you can see or find in the average draft list. Now I had already
guessed that Petro or Salt aren't, we are in leagues together I can
see that. And in another league there were comments that Nev sucks
so bad at LIVE drafts he won't even play in the things anymore. But
when I posted the ATG5 average LIVE draft list 15 months ago, I
commented I wasn't posting it until I was a step ahead of it. Salt
laughed at me. Fine by me.

Agreement: the new (AeroDave) average draft list has some
unfortunate side affects. Foremost, he never played in most of these
leagues. Using data mining to grab data against human opponents
is considered as bad as collusion in other on-line games and can
get your account suspended and thrown off the site permanently (i.e,.
on-line poker). If Petro is upset for me for posting the 17 team
average draft, than I say "tough." Its my information, I played in
those leauges, if I want to share it with the whole community, its
my right. "Deal with it." Or get upset with me. But now data mining
is going on where no one has played in the leagues and Bernie has
shared tools with singular managers to extract data that only they can
see. This makes me very uncomfortable.

Disagreement: well, the Diamond Dope Actuals information is also
data mining. If you are upset with losing an edge based on playing
experience, than the DD Actuals should also be in the discussion. I
know they are differences, but to me, .. if I am upset with AeroDave,
I have to be upset with Adrian. And Bernie (i.e., TSN) gave
AeroDave the tools to do this.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if TSN compiled a running average draft
list by themselves for everyone to see. Or at least, came up with a
formula for a TSN ranking that incorporated the positional scarcity and
platoon values of player, essentially coming much closer to an average
draft position ranking.

[doug_tucker10]

In the Star and SOM tournaments which involves hundreds of dollars in prize money they share all kinds of information regarding drafting and playing the game...i have no problem with draft lists or knowing who does what with their strategy...as was mentioned earlier Diamond Dope provides a great help, what difference is a draft list? I like that about Yahoo sports..haven't played it in awhile but you used to be able to see what player was drafted where. You still have to manage/play the games no matter what you think you may know about the game. Do you think in a real MLB draft that all the scouts and GM's are able to hide who they draft and in what round?, its not something cloaked in secrecy. Some guys take this game WAY too seriously.

[Salty]

HEH-
Hey RFV- I dont remember laughing at you waiting to publish the list til you were a step ahead- I think it was more of a heh- which is exactly what you should have done.
Im in agreement there.

I do draw a distinction between the live drafts and the the DDope sight-
One main reason being that there are a much more limited number of people that do live drafts than play at the other cap spaces.
We are talking about a pool of 20-30 people with less than that being regulars versus the entire strat community.

And most importantly as you said- if I play in a league then thats data that I've participated in- and should I or you want to compile it- and share it- that is reasonable.
The thing is that actually, if it came out once a number of new cards were added then great.

Id say the TSN rankings are mostly reasonable- but there are a few over/under priced players who you can see live drafters avoid and Id also say that the price emphasis changed a bit from 4 to 5 to 6- which I dont have a problem with.

And also, Im not sure Id agree with the experience is all the edge I got thing.
See, if someone has the list and they figure generally what kind of ball Im trying to play, they can look at the list and figure out who to nab in front of me- and approximately when.
Now, if someone has figured this out based on having played against me, I dont love it, but okay.

[The Jerk Store]

I think something that might make filling out a draft list even more fun and might help with some of the replacement player concerns is if you could set an optional 'backup' player for each draft spot, or maybe for just the top 3 or top 5 or top xx draft spots.

Example, say my top 3 on my draft list were:

George Brett
Rogers Hornsby
Mickey Mantle

Say someone else had Brett as their first choice and he picked before me. I could have the option of either setting Hornsby as my 'backup' top pick or if I really wanted a left handed hitting 3rd basemen I could set someone like Eddie Matthews as my 'backup' top pick. If Hornsby or Matthews were also taken (or if you left the backup field blank), then the current default choice would be made based off of Brett as the original pick.

[nevdully's]

I've played in "only" about 6 live draft leagues in ATGVI winning 50% of the time...But I've played in about 72 other live draft leagues with a winning pct of about .542 in total...Not too bad....My struggles in 6 are not why I stopped live drafting...I mention I struggle in 6...people see I've live drafted less...and as usual some people here put two and two together and come up with 5. lol

[Salty]

I kind of played it off as slightly amusing at the time, but really did not appreciate that someone had data on how well I did drafting at each positition-

Thats kind of personal stuff, and really should not be available to those that did not particpate against me in the draft- especially without asking those of us involved if its cool to do-
see because then its not just about which player was drafted where, but WHO drafted which players.

If thats the case, why cant I just get a list of everyone's draft cards?

[geekor]

[quote:3ac9956dfa="El-Saltman"]I kind of played it off as slightly amusing at the time, but really did not appreciate that someone had data on how well I did drafting at each positition-

Thats kind of personal stuff, and really should not be available to those that did not particpate against me in the draft- especially without asking those of us involved if its cool to do-
see because then its not just about which player was drafted where, but WHO drafted which players.

If thats the case, why cant I just get a list of everyone's draft cards?[/quote:3ac9956dfa]

Because TSN is HORRIBLE at security of their site. Same reason why I can read everyone's in league mail, personal or not. If you really want to write the scripts to mine for that data... you can do what you want with it.

[216 Stitches]

[quote:bee9c3e274="El-Saltman"]I kind of played it off as slightly amusing at the time, but really did not appreciate that someone had data on how well I did drafting at each positition-

Thats kind of personal stuff, and really should not be available to those that did not particpate against me in the draft- especially without asking those of us involved if its cool to do-
see because then its not just about which player was drafted where, but WHO drafted which players. [/quote:bee9c3e274]

Yeah, part of those threads gave me a sick feeling -- we went from
me posting my small, flawed data sets, to extensively data mined
average player sets to publishing data about select individual
managers. DonFESQ's stats were mentioned first and I made a
really weak comment against disclosing that personnel stuff, but I
guess it should have been stronger. Even if its not disclosed, it
seems wrong to have that information without being in the leagues
themselves -- especially as most managers don't get it.

P.S. I first remember Nev struggling in LIVE drafts because Nev
has twice posted league messages (once in ATG5 and once in ATG6) that
his team sucks and he thought he knew something about SOM. In
both leagues, his draft strategy really did suck, but if he is a n
overall .546 LIVE draft manager, well, (1) he is really good, and (2) he
tracks his stats way too much. Really, the morale is, Nev, we do read
your league wide messages and your thread messages. Miss you
in the LIVE drafts, btw.

[Mr Baseball World]

Maybe they can tell me who I drafted and in what round in the couple of live drafts I did(thought I only did one but looking through my teams I see 2 in ATG IV, one in 2008 and one in 1986???????), since apparently I don't have access to that info. :x