Bullpen THREE!

[nevdully's]

So many things make this game ****** up. Too many too list. But here's just a sample...Keefe on [b:b3261c001a][u:b3261c001a]QUICK HOOK[/u:b3261c001a][/b:b3261c001a] with a d-e-e-p and rested pen in a 200m league....left in for 8 2/3rds to give up [b:b3261c001a][u:b3261c001a]TWELVE RUNS on TWENTY HITS![/b:b3261c001a][/u:b3261c001a]


http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/stratomatic/league/boxscore.html?group_id=142390&g_id=240

[Valen]

I sometimes think you may go overboard with normalization but definitely take notice when you bring up things like this. My assumption is someone who plays as much as you with success would know how to set settings to avoid things like this.

That is one reason I have bought the cdrom game. One long term goal is to see if the cdrom game exhibits these same flaws. I suspect it does but am hopeful understanding the cdrom game the online is based on will help me understand what is reasonable to expect with respect to improvement in the online game.

[george barnard]

Nev,

I'm going to ask a silly question (which would not be the first time I've done so -- remember I'm the guy who played Jake Stahl at catcher against you that started a long debate about normalization). Think of me like the guy in after sales who first asks "Is the machine plugged in?" Did you have Keefe set at F4 or lower? Because apparently the "Do not relieve before ..." is a prioritizer, overriding other settings. So if he is at F4 then he doesn't come out until F0 in this case.

But you know that. I said it was a silly question. Just an idea.

Bill

[nevdully's]

He was set at the default of F9..

I know why this happens but have troubling explaining it on the boards.

Put it this way, had the score been 2-1 in the 6th he woulda been pulled. It seems to me [b:4240c38342]"quick hook"[/b:4240c38342] is used at the first sign of trouble [u:4240c38342]][b:4240c38342]"In A Close Game"[/b:4240c38342][/u:4240c38342] usually a well pitched game (2-1) NOT in a poorly pitched game (8-8 like this one). I've probably confused people even more now but trust me it's a "fix" situation for bullpen 3.

Applying quick hook should be redefined AND looked at earlier (i think it's the 6th inning, maybe the 5th) but seriously to not look at quick hook at any time when a pitcher is getting rocked (here 8 runs in 3 innings) is flawed....Because in ATG an S8 or S9 (which many of them are) is left in m-u-c-h longer to take his beating then the same situation for a S5 or S6...***Now perhaps it not an inning thing but a price thing i.e. higher priced starters or some combination of both....But Frock S6 on quick hook *or* when getting hit hard early, gets pulled much quicker than a S8 (in my experiences)

[AeroDave10]

I do think it is related somewhat to pricing/card quality. As you know, the fact that Tim Keefe is getting rocked does not affect future rolls until he falls below F9. He's still a high-priced pitcher and if he comes out of the game un-fatigued in the 3rd inning, the bullpen could get spent before you make it to the end of the game. That ends up being a waste of some "free innings" you still could have squeeze out of Keefe, and now the bullpen is a bit more tired for the next game.

I do understand your point, though, about having a better understanding of "quick hook". For that matter, having a firmer grasp of the fatigue ratings and how they affect pitchers would be nice, too. Ultimately, pitch by pitch control is the ideal, and the online version does its best to make those decisions.

[216 Stitches]

In the box score shown, only 1 single happened on the pitchers card
after the first inning.

Most noteably, the HRs at the end of the game were all on hitting card
rolls.

If a reliever would have been in for those rolls, they still would have
been HRs, just on somebody elses ERA.

Am I missing something here?

[nevdully's]

Sure you're missing pretty much everything....just because the outcome woulda been the same doesn't change the fact that quick hook often isn't quick at all. Don't you want your settings or controls to work properly?

[Salty]

If I were to have my way-
I'd be able to define (have control over) the meaning of 'hook' quick or not.

I understand the Dont rel. before, but what about a Pull after?

For example:
If Marichal gives up X runs past X inning he gets pulled, or a total of X runs.

My other big request was the avoid batter button.

My other other big request was in agreement with Nev- I really really really need a lefty righty set-up choice.

Would love me some Bullpen 3. :shock:

...and since Im making requests- would REALLY REALLY REALLY love me some new cards!!!

[nevdully's]

ALSO if just ONE roll on the rp's card (if he was brought in after my guy gave up 8 runs) was a different outcome it very possibly coulda changed all subsequent outcomes. :roll:

[gkhd11a]

From looking at the 31-12 team, your "Deep" pen is using 2 R2 and a R1 as bonafide minimum "real relievers" to meet the minimum requirement bullpen with McClure set as your secondary lefty closer to 3 finger Brown. It also appears both McClure and Honeycut are set to avoid righties quick hook. So that leaves only one bonafide regular reliever who you are willing to see pitch to more than one batter. And I think based on his usage and that of 3 Finger and Satchel he is checked avoid lefties quick hook.
I also think you must have your bullpen usage set to conservative.

So I think what is happening is HAL sees I only have a potential 5 innings of bullpen guys out there and 2 are not supposed to face righties and my manager wants me to be conservative so I will leave him in. Only when HAL decides he must make a change is he saying Oh yeah I got this Satchel Paige and 3 Finger Brown guy out there to pitch, they are starters but hey look at that they are not scheduled to pitch tomorrow and they are fully rested, let's use them based on your settings. If you want to use them more you need to set your bullpen usage to aggressive, and set Paige and 3 Finger to do not relieve before F6 and they will get a ton of innings. But then you might not be happy with the result with Maddux Johnson and Clemens in your rotation.

So you have pretty much maximized the effectiveness of your pitching staff I think, which is why this team is 35-12. There is this one game where HAL appears a little crazy but I think it is for the reasons above, as we do not have settings for the one pitcher we would like to be checked on regularly.

Almost all the time HAL uses the relievers pretty much as I expect him to he would prefer a reliever with an R5 role, In this league I wanted Babe Adams used as much as possible and PEDRO to be left in, I have the relief set to aggressive and have Pedro, Tom Hall and Babe set to slow hook and do not relieve before F6. Babe is set for every conceivable reliever role.

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